Hong Kong extradition protests leave city in shock

C4Cat

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I thought Hong Kong is a part of China anyway, since 1997.
 

C4Cat

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proposed amendments to the extradition laws that would allow extradition requests from authorities in mainland China, Taiwan and Macau for suspects accused of criminal wrongdoing such as murder and rape.
...
The move came after a 19-year-old Hong Kong man allegedly murdered his 20-year-old pregnant girlfriend while they were holidaying in Taiwan together in February last year.
The man fled to Hong Kong and could not be extradited to Taiwan because the two do not have an extradition treaty.
Hong Kong has entered into extradition agreements with 20 countries, including the UK and the US, but an agreement with China has never been reached.
I don't see what the problem is really.
 

koffiejunkie

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I don't see what the problem is really.
Several problems:

1. China's judicial system is not independent from the executive.

2. China has an unusually high conviction rate - the implication is that it's not impartial.

3. China has the death penalty, and uses it regularly and for pretty tame crimes. The record of executions is state secret (so lack of transparency) but the ones that are known about account for more than half the executions world wide. You know, the same world that includes the US and Russia.

By comparison, Hong Kong hasn't executed anyone since the 60s, formally abolished the death penalty (laws inherited from the UK) and made the right to life protected under the Bill of Rights.

4. China is not known for respecting human rights all that much.

5. Lots of things that are explicitly legal in Hong Kong are illegal in China, which is a problem because:

6. The law doesn't just allow extradition. It includes several reforms that blurs the lines between the two territories
and compromises Hong Kong's judiciary (which is fully independent). For example:

7. Under the law, the courts would only review extradition requests, not rule on them. It is the Chief Executive (the head of state in Hong Kong) that ultimately decides. The Chief Executive is picked by China, and will never say no to China.

And that's just the technical issues. The bigger issue is that it's an obvious move by Beijing to tighten the grip on Hong Kong. The law has nothing at all to do with the guy who killed his girlfriend. His girlfriend is another Hong Konger and as far as I understand he can be tried in Hong Kong. Taiwan has said that they wouldn't request his extradition even if the law passed. The whole thing is just being used as a pretext.
 

prOd

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I thought Hong Kong is a part of China anyway, since 1997.
"One country, two systems" is a constitutional principle formulated by Deng Xiaoping, the Paramount Leader of the People's Republic of China (PRC), for the reunification of China during the early 1980s. He suggested that there would be only one China, but distinct Chinese regions such as Hong Kong and Macau could retain their own economic and administrative systems, while the rest of the PRC (or simply "China") uses the socialism with Chinese characteristics system

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems

You can't enter Hong Kong and just hop over to China (or the other way around), you still need to cross a border and have a valid Visa.
 

C4Cat

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"One country, two systems" is a constitutional principle formulated by Deng Xiaoping, the Paramount Leader of the People's Republic of China (PRC), for the reunification of China during the early 1980s. He suggested that there would be only one China, but distinct Chinese regions such as Hong Kong and Macau could retain their own economic and administrative systems, while the rest of the PRC (or simply "China") uses the socialism with Chinese characteristics system

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems

You can't enter Hong Kong and just hop over to China (or the other way around), you still need to cross a border and have a valid Visa.
Ok, sure, but it's still part of China and the One Party, two systems constitutional principle is at the behest and mandate of China. They could change this at any time.
 

Ninja'd

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Hard to imagine anything more incendiary to #China
Here comes a new challenger!

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/26/nike-cancels-sale-of-undercover-sports-shoes-in-china-report.html

Nike halted the sale of a range of sports shoes in China after its Japanese designer showed support for Hong Kong protests in an Instagram post, the Financial Times reported on Wednesday.

The line of limited-edition sports shoes are designed by Undercover, the brand of Japanese designer Jun Takahashi, according to the report. Several Chinese retailers withdrew those shoes from sale without explanation, the FT reported.


Nike confirmed the move to CNBC. A spokesperson for the company said, “Based on feedback from Chinese consumers, we have withdrawn from China a small number of products that were designed by a collaborator.”
 

DreamKing

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China says army can be deployed at Hong Kong's request
According to the article, the city's authorities may ask, "when necessary", the central government for assistance from the garrison "in the maintenance of public order and in disaster relief".

This was the first time Beijing has publicly referred to the possibility of deploying the People's Liberation Army (PLA) to deal with the unrest in Hong Kong.
https://www.news24.com/World/News/china-says-army-can-be-deployed-at-hong-kongs-request-20190724
 

Zoomzoom

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China has an unusually high conviction rate - the implication is that it's not impartial.
That might be true, but it isn't why they have a high conviction rate, that is more to do with how their justice system works.

It's hellishly complicated and this is a very simplified version of the whole procedure but basically if you are arrested for something you are held in detention for 3 days during which time the police have to find evidence against you and put make a case for why the state has grounds to proceed against you. They have to present this evidence to the prosecutor who then (on the basis of the evidence) decides a. there is insufficient evidence to proceed and orders the police to release you or b. that there is sufficient evidence to proceed with a case against you. At this point actual formal charges are brought and a full investigation swings into gear which lasts up to 3 months. During this time any co-operation you give the police, contrition you show for the crime etc all work in your favour. At the end of 3 months you appear in court again. And once again the police pretty much have to prove what they have against you all over again, but also presented is your willingness to cooperate with the investigation, how you responded to questioning, if you showed remorse, and how you behaved in the detention center (this is not jail and you have not been convicted of anything yet). At this time the judge will hand down a judgement and sentencing which may be that 'time served' was sufficient and even though you have just been convicted of a crime, you are deemed to be rehabilitated etc and are free to go.

The long and short of it is, the way the system is set up, by the time you are actually convicted everyone is absolutely certain you did it and your guilt is not in question.
 

koffiejunkie

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The long and short of it is, the way the system is set up, by the time you are actually convicted everyone is absolutely certain you did it and your guilt is not in question.
In the same way that, once the SA government awards a tender, we can all be sure that the successful comrade was in fact the best choice, everything was above board, no brown envelopes changed hands, and no lambs were sacrificed.
 

Scooby_Doo

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I am not surprised this is happening.

As the date for Hong Kong to be officially integrated into China gets closer, the Chinese government will want more control over detractors who might derail that eventuality. I have no doubt that there are going to be cases of people suddenly being accused of crimes which require them to be extradited to China should this bill pass.
 

eg2505

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I thought Hong Kong is a part of China anyway, since 1997.

so when is China supposed to make HK part of China officially? didnt the British at least make sure HK stays independent for a few years?

could it be they will go back on that promise? especially if they decide to invade?
 

Cius

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If I was living in Honk Kong I would be terrified right now of what is to follow.
 

C4Cat

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so when is China supposed to make HK part of China officially? didnt the British at least make sure HK stays independent for a few years?

could it be they will go back on that promise? especially if they decide to invade?
Sovereignty over the territory was transferred to China in 1997. Thus far China has allowed HK to remain a special administrative region with it's own governing and economic systems but I don't believe they are under any obligation to do so.
 

eg2505

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Sovereignty over the territory was transferred to China in 1997. Thus far China has allowed HK to remain a special administrative region with it's own governing and economic systems but I don't believe they are under any obligation to do so.
isn't China supposed to rule HK after 2047 according to the Handover agreement with the UK?
so until then, they need to stay "semi-independant" or how exactly the rules work is very strange.
 
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