Hong Kong extradition protests leave city in shock

C4Cat

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isn't China supposed to rule HK after 2047 according to the Handover agreement with the UK?
so until then, they need to stay "semi-independant" or how exactly the rules work is very strange.
Interesting, I wasn't aware of that.
The Basic Law ensured Hong Kong will retain its capitalist economic system and own currency (the Hong Kong Dollar), legal system, legislative system, and people's rights and freedom for fifty years
The central government in Beijing maintains control over Hong Kong's foreign affairs as well as the legal interpretation of the Basic Law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems
 

koffiejunkie

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so when is China supposed to make HK part of China officially?
Hong Kong *is* part of China, officially. It's a bit closer to a state in a federation, but with a much higher degree of autonomy - independent judiciary, monetary system, etc. But people born in Hong Kong (at least after 1997) are Chinese citizens, even if they hold Hong Kong SAR passports.

didnt the British at least make sure HK stays independent for a few years?
50 years, as per the joint declaration. Note, the joint declaration says nothing about eventual universal suffrage. It is only mentioned in the Basic Law, which shall remain in place for 50 years, i.e. until 2047. So even if universal suffrage is realised today, it will be gone in 28 years.

could it be they will go back on that promise? especially if they decide to invade?
The PLA station in Hong Kong (it's just a building, soldiers aren't allowed out) is only there for PRC defence purpose. They are not allowed to interfere in Hong Kong - I think this is one of the annexes, rather than the Joint Declaration iself - haven't seen the text though. That said, we've heard PRC goons make claims to the contrary, so who knows.

I very much doubt the CCP has any plans to let HK carry on as it is after 2047. Hong Kong has the best port on their coast, and right now China is making no money off it. Hong Kong's GDP is preposterously large, given it's size (about the same as SA). But then, much of its value is tied up in the fact that it has a separate legal and very free economic system.

Even if Xi ends up being supreme leader for lift, he might be expired by then anyway. Hopefully someone more moderate follows. In the meantime, useful idiots railing against captialism and free markets really aren't helping.
 

DreamKing

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so should HK have stayed with the British?
or should have it decided to become independent like Taiwan?
it depends.

option 1: reunion with British due to violation of sino-british joint declaration.by PRC.

possibility: 60%

option 2 : reunion with POC, under protection of POC, it will be protected by US indirectly.

possibility: 50%

option 3: declare independence

possibility: < 10%

the problem is, will PRC let HK go without a fight? (even with the biggest international pressure)
I doubt it.
 

eg2505

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I read somewhere that when HK was handed back to China, millions of people emigrated knowing what is going to happen next.
maybe they were the lucky ones?

if HK goes back to Britain will people decide to return?
 

DreamKing

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I read somewhere that when HK was handed back to China, millions of people emigrated knowing what is going to happen next.
maybe they were the lucky ones?

if HK goes back to Britain will people decide to return?
very positive
same as south africa ;)
 

ToxicBunny

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I read somewhere that when HK was handed back to China, millions of people emigrated knowing what is going to happen next.
maybe they were the lucky ones?

if HK goes back to Britain will people decide to return?
Millions didn't emigrate... Maybe thousands at best...

And no HK will never go back to Britain. It is part of China and China will make sure it stays part...
 

schumi

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WATCH: SA woman in Hong Kong sobs: ‘It’s unacceptable! I moved from SA to escape this!’

Social media has shown the young woman little sympathy, with even Helen Zille offering her a sardonic ‘shem’.
A South African woman put herself in the middle of Hong Kong pro-democracy protests at the weekend and begged the police and protesters to “just stop”.
Hong Kong police on Monday unveiled water cannon trucks as a new way to combat pro-democracy protesters, after tear gas and rubber bullets failed to stop more than two months of rallies.
They fired tear gas on shopping streets and in subway stations, with protesters hurling bricks and spraying riot police with fire extinguishers and water hoses. A government official told AFP that 45 people were injured in the clashes, including two who were in serious condition.


More at: https://citizen.co.za/news/news-eish/2166092/watch-sa-woman-in-hong-kong-sobs-its-unacceptable-i-moved-from-sa-to-escape-this/
 
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koffiejunkie

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This was quite shocking to see. The first half happens in Tai Koo station, at the exit from Cityplaza mall. It's a very very long escalator - I'd say 3 or 4 stories. Tripping and falling there could be dangerous if you're on your own. Sending a group of panicked people running down it could easily have ended in a lot of dead people.

And the police - WTF man? The way they were beating those people resembles the way the white shirt guys went about it in Yuen Long.

going to ask this question, do you think HK could break away from China now?
China would never allow this. They would sooner burn the city to the ground than lose face by letting it break away.

or do you think the CCP will clamp down even harder on HK?
Yes, this is likely why Carry Lam has nothing but diluted diarrhoea to offer. She's no doubt been told to stay out of it - big daddy will take over if it gets out of hand.

so should HK have stayed with the British?
That was never an option. The UK leased Hong Kong from China - they didn't own it.

or should have it decided to become independent like Taiwan?
Taiwan's de-facto independence is not recognised by any country of significance. Taiwan still has a very large part of the computer market (even if they build much of it in China), so their economy can still handle the isolation. HK is in a much more precarious position. It's a financial hub, that's competing with two other significant hubs in the same timezone (Shanghai and Singapore). As it stands, something like 60% of foreign money flowing into China comes through HK. Without that HK would be significantly compromised. For China, not having HK as a financial hub would be a minor annoyance, at best.

it depends.

option 1: reunion with British due to violation of sino-british joint declaration.by PRC.

possibility: 60%
0% - Not gonna happen.

option 2 : reunion with POC, under protection of POC, it will be protected by US indirectly.

possibility: 50%
Do you mean ROC?

option 3: declare independence

possibility: < 10%
I'll give you this one - after all, 0% < 10%

I read somewhere that when HK was handed back to China, millions of people emigrated knowing what is going to happen next.
maybe they were the lucky ones?
10s, maybe 100s of thousands. I doubt it was a million. The sad thing is, recently many of those started coming back. Things seems to have been going OK, they wanted to be closer to their families, and particularly for the older people, they don't see themselves being around anymore in 2047, so it's not as big a concern.

if HK goes back to Britain will people decide to return?
Even if the USA will revoke their declaration of independence and swear allegiance to the Queen, India and Pakistan decide to merge peacefully, and the FF+ wins the general election all on the same day, I would still bet against HK becoming anything other than a part of the PRC.
 

Jase

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I just landed in HK. I haven't seen so many cancelled flights. My connecting flight has been delayed by a few hours. Perhaps I should go explore the city and see what's what.
 

John Tempus

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We were in HK last year and planned on going back this year., really loved our time there. Sad to see what's happening but glad to see the people standing up for their rights and freedoms, not that it will make much difference in the end :/



I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic but it is pretty shocking. If/when this law passes there will be no difference between mainland China and HK in terms of the reach of law China has, it's pretty scary and the people there are obviously not happy about it
Hate to break it to you but Hong Kong belongs to China.

So no matter how you slice it eventually China will convert Hong Kong into the Chinese "empire" completely.

Hong Kong should rather have fought harder for independence from China than to accept the wish wash middle governance they are stuck in right now with the eventual outcome being completely absorbed by China.
 

John Tempus

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That was never an option. The UK leased Hong Kong from China - they didn't own it.
Huh ? Hong Kong was a full blown British colony. It was transfered over to China in 1997 as part of a new treaty. Up until then it was not property of China at all even though China wanted to claim it for many many years since signing the original rights away to the British Empire after the British claimed it for themself.

"Britain occupied the island of Hong Kong on 25 January 1841 and used it as a military staging point. China was defeated and was forced to cede Hong Kong to Britain in the Treaty of Nanking signed on 29 August 1842. Hong Kong became a Crown Colony of the British Empire."

So the real outrage from Hong Kong should have come in 1997 yet they were Oh so happy to part ways with the British Empire. Now they are in for a future of real hurt brought to you by the Chinese, I shed no tears for them.
 

koffiejunkie

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Huh ? Hong Kong was a full blown British colony.
I was commenting on post-handover. You are right, it was a colony in the early days (although that was a very small subset of the current landmass), but all of it was rolled into the lease agreement with the Qing government in 1898. From then on, it belonged to China, and was leased to the UK. Whether the UK (or 3rd parties) chose to call it a colony doesn't change that.
 

konfab

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But why don't they want to be part of a communist country?

I thought communism was loving and kind, unlike the evils of free market capitalism and individual rights.
 
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