How a pro-vaccine doctor reopened debate about link to autism

The Free Radical

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An example:

Here is a convicted pedophile with a criminal record coming to teach your children sex education, according to what you are saying, you cannot possibly deny him a job until he actually commits a crime.

As I said before, you lot want everyone else to risk their health because of your choices.
You are taking about a crime which has been committed prior to being admitted to a school.
What crime in our criminal law has been committed by not being vaccinated?
Show me the gazetted South African law compelling immunization.
 

Lupus

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Should have clarified: Private schools.

It is crazy that entry to public schools isn't premised on the requirement of vaccination.
It is technically, the the AV parent can kick up a fuss and throw the whole denying my child education thing, so the school has to relent.
 

LazyLion

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Most of the diseases for which vaccines were supposedly created were already in a steep decline or had almost completely vanished when vaccines were first came to market. The truth is proper sanitation and new hygiene practices resulted in the decline of communicable diseases at the time vaccines were rolled out. The pharmaceutical industry piggy-backed on this and natural viral burn-out trend have been riding this fake science and medi-cult scam ever since.

https://www.learntherisk.org/diseases/
vaccine-sanitation.jpg
 

flippakitten

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I am pro-vaccinations - if you have seen a dog with any one of the preventable diseases you are pro-vaccination. It works, and I will straight up call anyone who doesn't vaccinate their puppies, kittens or kids stupid to their face.

HOWEVER

There are two problems with vaccinations that are not being addressed in all the really stupid autism or not debate:

1. Vaccine side-effects are real and serious (deaths occur).

2. There is growing evidence that we vaccinate excessively with little discernible benefit. i.e the first rounds of vaccination confer immunity that is not improved by further vaccination. In fact, once the immune system is activated subsequent vaccinations are destroyed by the immune system before they have effect.

I would be greatly in support of efforts to make vaccines safer and to re-examine vaccination schedules to eliminate any non-essential vaccinations that are of no benefit to the recipient.
I fully agree with you but in some cases I think it's needed and we do need to relook at all the vaccines.
That being said, the state mandated vaccine schedule in South Africa is very slim in comparison to the rest of the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMRV_vaccine#/media/File:Measles_US_1944-2007_inset.png
 

dj2381

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It is technically, the the AV parent can kick up a fuss and throw the whole denying my child education thing, so the school has to relent.
They have to accept the schools terms and conditions, otherwise they can't sign the application.
 

konfab

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It is technically, the the AV parent can kick up a fuss and throw the whole denying my child education thing, so the school has to relent.
The AV parents is presenting a risk to the health of all the children and adults in the school.
All rights are balanced in this country. Health will most likely take precedence over education.

You can make a very good case to bar willingly unvaccinated children from school. The principle problem lies in that it isn't a crime to spread a contagious illness. Which means that the parents who increased the risk of an infection will never be held responsible for their actions, ergo the responsibility will then fall onto the school.
 

dj2381

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Your child has a higher chance of being killed crossing a road, drowing in your pool, eating nuts, or dying from an adverse drug reaction to pediatrc paracetamol than being killed by these diseases.

Fear Porn sells vaccines.
If you are a completely incompetent parent who doesn't look after your kids then sure, but then you shouldn't be a parent in the 1st place.
 

Zoomzoom

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absolutely agree, however I would like to not run the risk of the vaccine harming or killing my kid in the process of preventing a disease that isn't that serious if I don't vaccinate.

FYI before you get all up in my face, my dog, cat, kid and myself have all been vaccinated. I'm not anti-vaccinations, but we are learning new things everyday about how to do things better but vaccine safety is not a discussion the world is having because everyone has their backs up about not vaccinating at all that the entire conversation is so rabidly 'you have to vaccinate' that there is no room for a sensible discussion on how can vaccines be made safer (and they need to be made safer) and for the research that is already coming out on vaccination schedules that will revise how much and how often we vaccinate.
 

noxibox

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Your child has a higher chance of being killed crossing a road, drowing in your pool, eating nuts, or dying from an adverse drug reaction to pediatrc paracetamol than being killed by these diseases.

Fear Porn sells vaccines.
Your child has a higher chance of being harmed by a childhood disease than they do by a vaccine. As you say fear sells, but it is selling anti-vaccine sentiment.

1. Vaccine side-effects are real and serious (deaths occur).
They are, but have far lower incidence that the real and serious side effects of the diseases.

2. There is growing evidence that we vaccinate excessively with little discernible benefit. i.e the first rounds of vaccination confer immunity that is not improved by further vaccination. In fact, once the immune system is activated subsequent vaccinations are destroyed by the immune system before they have effect.
Citation? When children are constantly bombarding

I would be greatly in support of efforts to make vaccines safer and to re-examine vaccination schedules to eliminate any non-essential vaccinations that are of no benefit to the recipient.
Vaccine safety is taken extremely seriously by the authorities. As for what is allegedly non-essential who is, and how are they making this decision?
 

Hamish McPanji

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Your child has a higher chance of being killed crossing a road, drowing in your pool, eating nuts, or dying from an adverse drug reaction to pediatrc paracetamol than being killed by these diseases.

Fear Porn sells vaccines.
Pity we can't vaccinate against those, then. Why are you trying to make his case for him?
 

konfab

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You are taking about a crime which has been committed prior to being admitted to a school.
What crime in our criminal law has been committed by not being vaccinated?
Show me the gazetted South African law compelling immunization.
Section 24 of the constitution:
Everyone has the right –
(a) To an environment that is not harmful to their health or well-being; and
http://www.polity.org.za/article/environmental-right-in-terms-of-the-constitution-2018-02-14

Anti-vaxxers willingly create an environment that is harmful to the rights of other people. Infringing on someone's rights is a criminal act.
 

rietrot

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If you are a completely incompetent parent who doesn't look after your kids then sure, but then you shouldn't be a parent in the 1st place.
Lol. Religious extremists like you and Lazy are just pushing more people to be antiwaxxers and polarising the issue. I'm loving it.
 

The Free Radical

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The AV parents is presenting a risk to the health of all the children and adults in the school.
All rights are balanced in this country. Health will most likely take precedence over education.

You can make a very good case to bar willingly vaccinated children from school. The principle problem lies in that it isn't a crime to spread a contagious illness. Which means that the parents who increased the risk of an infection will never be held responsible for their actions, ergo the responsibility will then fall onto the school.
You assume the child coming to the school has a virulent, high risk disease.
If such a child is sick, he or show will not be attending school.
Either the parent would keep them home, or the school would send them home.
With herd immunity being an established fact, vaccinated kids would be protected if the vaccine is as efficacious as touted.
 
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ambroseg1

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Do the parents of children who vaccinate their children, allow their children to play rugby or partake in any other sport that could potentially cause serious harm to their kids? Reason I ask, is because they seem to thrive on calling other parents poor parents for endangering their kids.
 
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