How a pro-vaccine doctor reopened debate about link to autism

flippakitten

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Your child has a higher chance of being killed crossing a road, drowing in your pool, eating nuts, or dying from an adverse drug reaction to pediatrc paracetamol than being killed by these diseases.

Fear Porn sells vaccines.
That's pretty accurate, thanks to vaccines.
 

konfab

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Lol. Religious extremists like you and Lazy are just pushing more people to be antiwaxxers and polarising the issue. I'm loving it.
Have any of those two said: "I believe in the healing power of vaccines" or are they pushing a more empirical approach?
 

porchrat

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I am pro-vaccinations - if you have seen a dog with any one of the preventable diseases you are pro-vaccination. It works, and I will straight up call anyone who doesn't vaccinate their puppies, kittens or kids stupid to their face.

HOWEVER

There are two problems with vaccinations that are not being addressed in all the really stupid autism or not debate:

1. Vaccine side-effects are real and serious (deaths occur).
You're more likely to have an adverse reaction to aspirin than you are to most vaccines.


2. There is growing evidence that we vaccinate excessively with little discernible benefit. i.e the first rounds of vaccination confer immunity that is not improved by further vaccination. In fact, once the immune system is activated subsequent vaccinations are destroyed by the immune system before they have effect.
Perhaps. Depends on the vaccination I suppose. Not all people react the same to vaccines. It took 3 shots to get me to an acceptable antibody titre for hep C. For most normal people it takes just the one shot. We're all different and unless you're going to propose that we perform an antibody titre for every single vaccination it makes financial sense to just cater for the lowest common denominator.


I would be greatly in support of efforts to make vaccines safer and to re-examine vaccination schedules to eliminate any non-essential vaccinations that are of no benefit to the recipient.
Vaccines are one of, if not the, safest medication you can take. They are administered to billions of people each year with very very few negative reactions. Check the statistics. The number of reactions may look big but that's just because so very many people receive them.
 

konfab

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Do the parents of children who vaccinate their children, allow their children to play rugby or partake in any other sport that could potentially cause serious harm to their kids? Reason I ask, is because they seem to thrive on calling other parents poor parents for endangering their kids.
There are plenty of upsides for kids doing sport.

Can't really see the team-building and socialisation aspects of not giving your child a vaccine.
 

rietrot

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Have any of those two said: "I believe in the healing power of vaccines" or are they pushing a more empirical approach?
The former. The OP argues for an empirical approach, but I guess they missed it and started defending their god straight away.
 

flippakitten

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Are you
You assume the child coming to the school has a virulent, high risk disease.
If such a child is sick, he or show will not be attending school.
Either the parent would keep them home, or the school would send them home.
With herd immunity being an established fact, vaccinated kids would be protected if the vaccine is as efficacious as touted.

By the way, amny kids contract measles, chick pox etc despite being immunized.
Are you even reading the articles and research studies I'm sending you? I'm guessing not otherwise you wouldn't still be pushing your skewed and deranged point of view.

At least if someone reads this thread that is considering not vaccinating their kids, there's a mountain of evidence posted in the links showing the negative effects of not vaccinating.

While I've sent all that information, you have responded with no proof of your statements, none, nothing.
 

ambroseg1

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There are plenty of upsides for kids doing sport.

Can't really see the team-building and socialisation aspects of not giving your child a vaccine.
So putting your child's life at risk is only cool when there are "team-building and socialisation" benefits?:laugh:
 

The Free Radical

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Section 24 of the constitution:

http://www.polity.org.za/article/environmental-right-in-terms-of-the-constitution-2018-02-14

Anti-vaxxers willingly create an environment that is harmful to the rights of other people. Infringing on someone's rights is a criminal act.
You need to prove demonstrable and verifiable harm firstly.
How do you do that when an non-vaccinated child is 100% healthy.
You will not win such a case because you have no facts to substantiate your injury.
This is probably why this has never been tested in our courts.
If your child got ill, how can you prove the virus was transmitted from the healthy non-vaccinated child, or somewhere in a mall or even from a domestic worker.

Do we demand vaccination cards from domestic workers, work colleagues, social club members or people in general society we mingle with on a daily basis?
 

aleksandar

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So putting your child's life at risk is only cool when there are "team-building and socialisation" benefits?:laugh:
Life as such is a calculated risk, every time you go on the road you are at risk.

However when certain risks can be avoided with almost 100% certainty it is wise to do so.
Vaccine is one of them. If we could make one that would enable us to avoid car accidents, fall down the stairs, get food poisoning I would take it.
 

dj2381

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Lol. Religious extremists like you and Lazy are just pushing more people to be antiwaxxers and polarising the issue. I'm loving it.
Religious extremists? Lol Did you quote the wrong post?
 

Zoomzoom

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Your child has a higher chance of being harmed by a childhood disease than they do by a vaccine. As you say fear sells, but it is selling anti-vaccine sentiment.
Can we... by some miracle ... separate a discussion about vaccine safety from anti-vax nonsense. Can we take it as read that vaccines are essential for disease prevention and I do not dispute the need for them. What I have issue with is, is that I have become more informed on the issues I have become aware of how serious vaccine side-effects are. People are NOT properly informed about the risks of vaccination, in fact one of the good things that have come out of the anti-vax movement is that doctors have finally (because it is a very new thing) started to tell parents about the risks, but even so it is so highly underplayed and there is very little or no information given on what to look for in your child post-vaccination if there are any problems. The medical profession do not take this seriously enough.

They are, but have far lower incidence that the real and serious side effects of the diseases.
When reporting of vaccine related side-effects is not mandatory, without clear and specific guidelines on what to report, how do we even know this accurately? What we do know is that even with the very pathetic reporting process is that around 10% of all vaccinations have serious side-effects with about 1% ending in death. What we don't know is how many more are unreported or unrecognised.

Citation? When children are constantly bombarding
Sadly because these issues are not taken seriously in the medical community it has been left up to the veterinary community to do the research because apparently vets don't have their heads so far up their rear ends as the medical profession does.

This article sums up the current understanding in the veterinary community about vaccination schedules fairly comprehensively (with citations to the studies).

https://dogsfirst.ie/health-issues/dog-vaccinations-part-1/

Vaccine safety is taken extremely seriously by the authorities. As for what is allegedly non-essential who is, and how are they making this decision?
No it really isn't. Not at any level. Not in the amount of information given to parents, not in informing parents about what to look for, not in being required to report side-effects, and certainly not in doing vaccine safety research. The medical stance is vaccines are safe, and you must vaccinate. They are so heavily into the 'vaccines are safe' message that they cannot open their minds to the concept that vaccines might not be as safe as they have been touting them to be. They also can't backtrack and say 'yes vaccines are safe, but they might cause a **** load of serious side-effects so please watch out for ...'. They are caught in a trap of their own making.
 

eye_suc

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I love Australia for imposing a "dumb people tax". We should propose this to our ANC government as easy money.
 

noxibox

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Most of the diseases for which vaccines were supposedly created were already in a steep decline or had almost completely vanished when vaccines were first came to market. The truth is proper sanitation and new hygiene practices resulted in the decline of communicable diseases at the time vaccines were rolled out. The pharmaceutical industry piggy-backed on this and natural viral burn-out trend have been riding this fake science and medi-cult scam ever since.

https://www.learntherisk.org/diseases/
From what I can see here polio declined steeply once the vaccine was introduced. What were the sanitation problems that caused it to go up so rapidly, doubling, from 1951 to 1952? What were the sanitation problems that caused various almost eliminated childhood diseases to break out in the last few years, with most cases occurring in the unvaccinated? Are the latter prone to being dirtier? Is it possible it's a good idea to do both, good sanitation and vaccines?

That web site is unfortunately prone to crackpot conspiracy instead of a justified and legitimate concern about the behaviour of the pharmaceutical industry.
 

ambroseg1

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Life as such is a calculated risk, every time you go on the road you are at risk.

However when certain risks can be avoided with almost 100% certainty it is wise to do so.
Vaccine is one of them. If we could make one that would enable us to avoid car accidents, fall down the stairs, get food poisoning I would take it.
Exactly. And who are you to judge/ridicule when other people take the risk or not?? Did you see you used the word "almost"? "Almost" 100% != 100%.
 

aleksandar

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You need to prove demonstrable and verifiable harm firstly.
How do you do that when an non-vaccinated child is 100% healthy.
You will not win such a case because you have no facts to substantiate your injury.
This is probably why this has never been tested in our courts.
If your child got ill, how can you prove the virus was transmitted from the healthy non-vaccinated child, or somewhere in a mall or even from a domestic worker.

Do we demand vaccination cards from domestic workers, work colleagues, social club members or people in general society we mingle with on a daily basis?
Well in the past we did not need to request it because people were sensible and vaccinate their children (just look up polio).
Unfortunately it seems will have to do it thanks to irresponsible and ill informed parents.

There are ways to identify virus strain so if there are multiple strains it could be possible to identify where virus came from.

If you would like I could offer you and your family free tour of infectious disease facilities in Serbia, there was large outbreak last year with 15 deaths.
 

Zoomzoom

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If they come near me or my kids with the HPV vaccine they can go do something painful to themselves with it. There are SERIOUS side-effects to that damn thing.

https://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/12/14/18-more-girls-claim-adverse-reactions-to-hpv-vaccine-important-info-on-gardasil-parents-dont-hear-about/

This is typical of the rabid stance doctors are taking that entirely fails to acknowledge that there is a serious discussion that needs to happen around the PROVEN side-effects of vaccines.
 
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