How much does it cost to get a gun license

Went_For_Beer said:
If the status is awarded to the person, why do we have S16 at all.

You are going to walk into a roadblock or something and the cop will challenge or arrest you for having more than 200 rounds and a S13/S15 weapon.
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What do you mean "If" it's awarded to the person, I had dedicated status before I owned ANY guns so how can it NOT be awarded to a person.

And if you're going to go according to what some uninformed cop tells you at a roadblock you might as well leave it at home and carry a rape whistle.
They'll give you **** for everything under the sun... hollowpoints, if your magazine is missing a round, if you carry a gun that's S15 or S16, if your gun and ammo are carried together and not in seperate bags, if your gun is if your gun is dirty, etc.

What happens if they make up some rule that if you ever carry your gun to/from or at work, you need it licensed for business purposes like a security officer because "why do we have licenses for business purposes at all". Would you agree with that too?
 
NoStepOnSnek88 said:
Here's another option to consider, hear me out. :unsure:

As mentioned above, the latest and best pricing on 7.62X39 and .223REM for STV R4000 for 500 rounds, is R8.00 per round, even if you are reloading for these it will still be expensive.

Option 1; get the Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22, which is an AR type rifle/design but it's chambered in .22LR (Long Rifle)

Option 2; get an AR or AK (much harder to get in SA, I mean the AK style PCC's) type PCC (Pistol Caliber Carbine) chambered in 9mmP, or get a dedicated design like a CZ Scorpion for instance which isn't based on an AR / AK design platform.

FYI: The latest pricing on .22LR (Long Rifle) is around R1000 for 500 rounds.


PS: If you are in Gauteng, or are willing, you are welcome to get in touch, you can shoot my Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 (.22LR) and see if that is your sort of thing. :)
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Thanks for this. I actually just completed the test and practical for NatShoot so once my competency is in I want to buy a semi-auto rifle. I shot an AK which was fantastic and the oke at the shop said the ammo is cheap, but I wanted to get a sense on what others with semi-auto rifles think.

Checked a vid on option one now and apparently a bed has more recoil haha, but it looks like a fun gun.

Oh, and I am in Cape Town, if I was in Gauteng I would have taken you up on your offer haha.
 
NoStepOnSnek88 said:
How come it's considered best not to challenge SAPS / Laws?
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Because the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and we might not like the brand of grease they'll apply once this government 'applies their minds' .

I get it. The wording in the act mentions nothing about license segment, only that you need DSS. So I reckon with a competent attorney you'll be good. (and might even get some bucks for wrongful arrest)

But there are published legal opinions by advocates on both sides. The legal principle is that the intention of the act matters, not just the semantics, and the people who drafted the act's intention was apparently not to allow more than 200 rounds to non S16 license holders, hence the existence of a permit you can apply for to hold more than 200 rounds.

The fact is that it hasn't been tested in court, and if you end up being the guinea pig in court it will cost you a few R. Ideally just use the confusion to justify buying another gun in the same caliber as your S13.



Side note: On the positive side, the SAPS seems to have lifted their game. DFO actually came to my house to deliver my renewal receipts, and a friend in a neigbouring town had a similar experience about a month ago.
 
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NR7 said:
And I stand by it, Federal HST is the best self-defense ammo around in my opinion. I will explain why I say that.

So a look back to the history of 9mmP in self-defense and law enforcement use. In the early days of the 1980s, the focus was on a light moving round moving very fast. Federal 9BPLE was a 115gr +P+ round that quickly developed a history as a manstopper.
It wasn't until the 1986 Miami shootout that ballistics became more important that subjective experiences.

Describing the whole shootout would take too long but basically the perps weren't high or anything, but managed to take a bunch of gunshot wounds from 9mmP pistols and .38 Spl revolvers without being stopped
The most significant point of that shootout in the context of ammo was the failure of the ammo (along with bad tactics, lack of firepower etc)


So out of this tragic loss the FBI took a deep look and figured out that some factors in a round choice are important, namely : Penetration, avoiding fragmentation or seperation of lead core and jacket, and of course expansion.
They ended up ditching 9mmP to develop 10mm Auto, and later 40S&W.

It wasn't until 9mmP was heavily improved with good bullet designs and proper loading that it fell back into use with law enforcement in modern times.


So, let's compare some ammo in light of this.


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Notice how the HSTs show consistent expansion in every weight, while the Rangers perform in varying degrees.
Let's compare the best to the best. The Ranger T's most consistent being the 147gr with a size deviation of 0.197 inches while the HSTs most consistent round (124gr +P) has a deviation of only 0.052 inches.
In terms of penetration, the Ranger T 147gr ranged from 14.4 to 19.5 inches (5.1 inch deviation) while HST ranged from 16.2 to 20.1 (3.9 inch deviation). The standards that the FBI set are 12 to 18 inches of penetration through their calibrated ballistic gel with some experts suggesting this should be increased to 16 inches minimum.
The FBI gel is harder than the Luckkygunner ammo test as its made from dehydrated animal tissue. The Luckygunner test also uses a 3.5inch barrel compact handgun. So the penetration figures would actually decrease from the Luckgunner test when retested in FBI gel so you want more than 12-18 inches in this type of gel.

So the HST 124gr +P expands more consistently and penetrated more deeply in the Luckygunner clear gel which means when subjected to the FBI harder gel it would meet that 12-18" penetration standard easily.
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I agree with what you said, and am aware of the FBI's standards etc, but that's why I only recommend the 147's nothing else, comparing the other weights isn't relevant because I and I would hope no one "smartie boxes" their magazines with different ammo. I would also not purchase any +P or P+ ammo.

The reason I recommended it, is for its price point and it has always worked flawlessly in numerous FA's. At the end of the day, I guess if you miss it doesn't really matter what SD ammo you had, hits will be the determining factor in the end.
 
NoStepOnSnek88 said:
I agree with what you said, and am aware of the FBI's standards etc, but that's why I only recommend the 147's nothing else, comparing the other weights isn't relevant because I and I would hope no one "smartie boxes" their magazines with different ammo. I would also not purchase any +P or P+ ammo.

The reason I recommended it, is for its price point and it has always worked flawlessly in numerous FA's. At the end of the day, I guess if you miss it doesn't really matter what SD ammo you had, hits will be the determining factor in the end.
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The 124-127gr rounds are still good with modern design. And modern guns function just fine with +P or even +P+ rounds.

The same 127gr +P+ Rangers that failed in the Luckygunner test also work fine when tested by the FBI, and heck Oscar shot 127gr +P+ Rangers out of a 4 inch barrel Taurus 9mmP pistol and it went straight through a toilet door to kill the person behind it. Modern rounds are very deadly.
 
Nickster said:
Thanks for this. I actually just completed the test and practical for NatShoot so once my competency is in I want to buy a semi-auto rifle. I shot an AK which was fantastic and the oke at the shop said the ammo is cheap, but I wanted to get a sense on what others with semi-auto rifles think.

Checked a vid on option one now and apparently a bed has more recoil haha, but it looks like a fun gun.

Oh, and I am in Cape Town, if I was in Gauteng I would have taken you up on your offer haha.
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Well, I don't know what is cheap for you or him, but like I said the latest pricing is R8-00 per round.

There is another point to consider when it comes to AK or AR, your initial buy-in for the AK will be cheaper, however to "kit it out" is more difficult and expensive than an AR, because the AK's don't come out with easily accessible ways to mount optics, grips, accessories etc...


As for recoil, an AR and AK don't have much recoil if you use the proper techniques as well, I can put hundreds of 12GA (Gauge) shells through my semi-auto shotgun without any complaints about being sore or uncomfortable.

PS: and as for AK's are far more reliable than any AR or gun, well that is just another "braai story" Truth be told, most of the time it's an ammo or magazine problem, revolvers do also break and jam so jaa.
 
NR7 said:
The 124-127gr rounds are still good with modern design. And modern guns function just fine with +P or even +P+ rounds.

The same 127gr +P+ Rangers that failed in the Luckygunner test also work fine when tested by the FBI, and heck Oscar shot 127gr +P+ Rangers out of a 4 inch barrel Taurus 9mmP pistol and it went straight through a toilet door to kill the person behind it. Modern rounds are very deadly.
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I agree. +P+ phobia doesn't need to exist for modern handguns.

Take Glock for example. The 9mm uses the same frame as the 40S&W and the 357sig, not a 'similar' frame, the exact same. So the frame can clearly handle far higher energies than standard 9mm. The barrel in the 9mm has more steel around the chamber than the 40 (smaller hole, with same outside dimensions = more steel), so the barrel can definitely handle it.

Also, if the 127gr +p+ rangers regularly destroyed handguns you would have heard about it by now.

I guess an argument can be made that it's not really more effective yet produces more recoil. Maybe.

Or, you can argue that it will wear out the gun faster. That is true, but it's the difference between more rounds than you'll ever be able to afford in your lifetime and more rounds than you'll ever be able to afford in your lifetime - 10%

The average shooter will not be wearing out a modern 9mm's frame or barrel in a lifetime, unless you are a very serious sport shooter doing 10s of thousands of rounds a year. But then you aren't looking for opinions about firearms on mybroadband
 
notayoba said:
It was a very smooth application this time. (well let's hope it actually gets captured)

Normally they send me into the bowels of the police station to go find someone to do fingerprints. That's often the hardest part, because no one wants to do it, or the person that can do it is out to lunch or something. This time the DFO did it at her desk. Much easier.
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I had to do mine myself....The DFO was busy and gave me the ink and the paperwork...
 
My_King said:
For the paperwork

DFO takes my finger, press it hard and rolls it a bit.

I do the exact thing she did for the 3rd application.

"NO dont roll your finger"
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If they had looked closely they would have seen my right thumb is actually my left thumb...I saw my mistake and just kept quiet as the DFO was not in a great mood...6 months later I had my licence...
 
I Don't think there is a specific thread regarding license renewals, if so, please direct me there.

I new to renew my firearm license soon, and would like someone with experience or who has done this recently, to please reach out.
 
Ares1000101 said:
I Don't think there is a specific thread regarding license renewals, if so, please direct me there.

I new to renew my firearm license soon, and would like someone with experience or who has done this recently, to please reach out.
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What do you want to know. I submitted my renewal 6 days ago. Keep it on the the thread here for others to find again.

Edit: Some basics.

I got this from my motivation writer, and it's what I submitted.

For competency renewal (you'll probably have to do that as well)

-R88 cash
-Completed competency renewal form (forgot the number)
-2 Color Passport photos
-2 copies of your ID Document;
-A copy of your proof of residence;
-A copy of your current SAPS competency certificate;
-A copy of your current license cards for firearms licensed to you; (The DFO chucked these, didn't want it)
-A copy of your training certificate when you did your competency, namely:
Knowledge of the Firearms Control Act 60 of 2000 (law module certificate); and
Handle and Use a Handgun certificate (etc – any additional competencies that may stand to be renewed)
-A copy of your PFTC Statement of Results;
-A character testimonial by your spouse, a colleague and a friend (3 character testimonials) confirming that you are a fit and proper person and that they have no objection to you renewing your competency or possessing licensed firearms


For license renewal:

-Completed SAPS518(a) form;
-Completed SAPS A-381a form;
-signed motivation;
-2 Color Passport photos
-R88
-2 copies of ID
-Copy of current license
-Copy of comp
-Any documents mentioned in your motivation (crime stats etc for S13, or other supporting docs for S15/16)
-Photos of safe

And then my friend that applied a week before me had to take his firearm in for them to inspect serial numbers. I didn't have to do that.
 
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notayoba said:
What do you want to know. I submitted my renewal 6 days ago. Keep it on the the thread here for others to find again.
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It seems from what I read on the saps.gov site, that I need to renew both competency and licence. So 2 different forms. 517(g) and 518(a).

The competency renewal requires 2 testimonials once more?

Is this correct, and if so, is that all I require besides the photos and proof of residence etc?

My licence is under section 15, sports shooting.
 
Ares1000101 said:
It seems from what I read on the saps.gov site, that I need to renew both competency and licence. So 2 different forms. 517(g) and 518(a).

The competency renewal requires 2 testimonials once more?

Is this correct, and if so, is that all I require besides the photos and proof of residence etc?

My licence is under section 15, sports shooting.
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I've edited my post above to include all the info.

But yes, you'll probably have to renew both. DFO dependent.

You'll need 3 testimonials (or at last I did)
 
notayoba said:
What do you want to know. I submitted my renewal 6 days ago. Keep it on the the thread here for others to find again.

Edit: Some basics.

I got this from my motivation writer, and it's what I submitted.

For competency renewal (you'll probably have to do that as well)

-R88 cash
-Completed competency renewal form (forgot the number)
-2 Color Passport photos
-2 copies of your ID Document;
-A copy of your proof of residence;
-A copy of your current SAPS competency certificate;
-A copy of your current license cards for firearms licensed to you; (The DFO chucked these, didn't want it)
-A copy of your training certificate when you did your competency, namely:
Knowledge of the Firearms Control Act 60 of 2000 (law module certificate); and
Handle and Use a Handgun certificate (etc – any additional competencies that may stand to be renewed)
-A copy of your PFTC Statement of Results;
-A character testimonial by your spouse, a colleague and a friend (3 character testimonials) confirming that you are a fit and proper person and that they have no objection to you renewing your competency or possessing licensed firearms


For license renewal:

-Completed SAPS518(a) form;
-Completed SAPS A-381a form;
-signed motivation;
-2 Color Passport photos
-R88
-2 copies of ID
-Copy of current license
-Copy of comp
-Any documents mentioned in your motivation (crime stats etc for S13, or other supporting docs for S15/16)

And then my friend that applied a week before me had to take his firearm in for them to inspect serial numbers. I didn't have to do that.
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Thanks, this is quite detailed!

Looks like it covers all bases, so I will get my docs together and try submit before month end.

Shot for the help!
 
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