How much money do you earn? And how do you spend it?

[Sinbad]

The nett amount includes the rental income so it's basically just PAYE and UIF taken off. My employer doesn't contribute towards medical aid and pension.

OK that makes sense - thanks.

 

[Ancalagon]

Software Developer, 27
Salary: R70k
Rental Income: R7.5k
Nett: R56k
Expenses: 38k

Extra goes towards paying off debt due to stupid mistakes made when I was younger and helping out family.

That's pretty good for your age!

 

[Superman-7]

LP gas, diesel or petrol?

Petrol.

 

[theratman]

That's pretty good for your age!

Pretty good for any age tbh!

 

[surface]

Software Developer, 27
Salary: R70k

My word. One of the brilliant developers I worked with a while ago was 27ish and he didn't earn this much then. You must be super fabulous in coding. What language do you code if I may ask? And what kind of software do you develop?

 

[surface]

Pretty good for any age tbh!

Indeed. Puts him in Top 1% earner in South Africa.

 

[GoB]

Indeed. Puts him in Top 1% earner in South Africa.

Probably about 3% for now. Per household 1% if he's single.

 

[surface]

Probably about 3% for now. Per household 1% if he's single.

How come 3%? Even if he has 3 members in household and if he is only earning member, that puts it in top 1% as per
http://www.saldru.uct.ac.za/income-comparison-tool/

 

[GoB]

How come 3%? Even if he has 3 members in household and if he is only earning member, that puts it in top 1% as per
http://www.saldru.uct.ac.za/income-comparison-tool/

Not to go into detail because it's difficult to estimate family size distribution on those stats...

1% is >R48753 / person. You'd have to estimate a typical family size for the top 1% in the survey. At an estimate of 1 dependent, earnings is > R97506.

 

[^^vampire^^]

My word. One of the brilliant developers I worked with a while ago was 27ish and he didn't earn this much then. You must be super fabulous in coding. What language do you code if I may ask? And what kind of software do you develop?

If you are a slightly above average developer, meaning you can do what is asked of you, and you have 8+ years of experience then this would be an average or slightly above average salary in my opinion. What people don't realise though is being able to do the job, although an important part of the whole working thing, is only a portion of it. If you are terrible at negotiating salary then you can be the best developer in the work and still get paid minimum wage. An employer is willing to pay you what you are worth, but if you are willing to take less than that, then why would they say no.

Let me give you an example. I have a brother who, like me, is a software developer. He is 2 years older than me, has 2 years more experience than me and is pretty damn good at what he does. When I left SA 2 years I was earning double what he was. DOUBLE. The sole reason is that he is not sociable and does not possess the skills to negotiate at any level. He moved over to Aus about a year and a bit ago and that gap has decreased to maybe earning about 2/5ths more than him, but only because the going rate that they will first offer is higher. The difference is still staggering though at $40k and he could easily be earning more than me.

The biggest driver for these salaries is that there is big demand and that most people get into software development because there is money in it but don't have the passion to actually be any good at it and therefore dilute the pool of people that can even do an average level of development.

 

[surface]

If you are a slightly above average developer, meaning you can do what is asked of you, and you have 8+ years of experience then this would be an average or slightly above average salary in my opinion. If you are terrible at negotiating salary then you can be the best developer in the work and still get paid minimum wage.

Wow. I really didn't know 870K per annum is slightly above average salary for developers these days.

 

[Ancalagon]

Wow. I really didn't know 870K per annum is slightly above average salary for developers these days.

Neither did I! Flip I thought I was decently paid, apparently not!

I saw that OfferZen did a post recently on the top 5% of earners in the various experience brackets. Some developers with 6+ years of experience are making R135k per month, gross. That is huge.

Then again, the problem with that is 6+ is too vague. 6+ could be 8 years of experience or 24 years of experience.

 

[kanzen]

My word. One of the brilliant developers I worked with a while ago was 27ish and he didn't earn this much then. You must be super fabulous in coding. What language do you code if I may ask? And what kind of software do you develop?

I mainly use Python and JavaScript on a daily basis. Having just over 6 years of experience, I do consider myself lucky to be earning that much money. In terms of software, I build whatever is needed.

I do occasionally suffer from Imposter Syndrome due to my lack of having any sort of degree.

 

[^^vampire^^]

Neither did I! Flip I thought I was decently paid, apparently not!

I saw that OfferZen did a post recently on the top 5% of earners in the various experience brackets. Some developers with 6+ years of experience are making R135k per month, gross. That is huge.

Then again, the problem with that is 6+ is too vague. 6+ could be 8 years of experience or 24 years of experience.

I mainly use Python and JavaScript on a daily basis. Having just over 6 years of experience, I do consider myself lucky to be earning that much money. In terms of software, I build whatever is needed.

I do occasionally suffer from Imposter Syndrome due to my lack of having any sort of degree.

It does seem ridiculous on the surface but at the end of the day there is a very large supply of developers that only know the basics and refuse to keep on learning and this is solely because they don't truly have the heart to be in software development. This is evident in the amount of interviews you have to do before you get one person that can actually free think to come up with solutions to problems. Throughout my career I've come across the situation time and again of making hires, and for every 25+ people that you interview, only person is acceptible. Acceptible being the keyword. Not good, not great, not just right, just acceptible.

It takes a certain analytical mind to be an effective software developer and if you are above average it is not that hard to command such these salaries (within reason as it gets to a point where you ability to negotiate salary and be confident in your skills comes into play).

 

[Ancalagon]

It does seem ridiculous on the surface but at the end of the day there is a very large supply of developers that only know the basics and refuse to keep on learning and this is solely because they don't truly have the heart to be in software development. This is evident in the amount of interviews you have to do before you get one person that can actually free think to come up with solutions to problems. Throughout my career I've come across the situation time and again of making hires, and for every 25+ people that you interview, only person is acceptible. Acceptible being the keyword. Not good, not great, not just right, just acceptible.

It takes a certain analytical mind to be an effective software developer and if you are above average it is not that hard to command such these salaries (within reason as it gets to a point where you ability to negotiate salary and be confident in your skills comes into play).

Makes me wonder if I am still underpaid then. In the last 2 and a half years, I have got massive raises. I'm now on R75k gross excluding bonuses. So I now wonder if I am still underpaid. I have over 10 years of experience.

 

[^^vampire^^]

Makes me wonder if I am still underpaid then. In the last 2 and a half years, I have got massive raises. I'm now on R75k gross excluding bonuses. So I now wonder if I am still underpaid. I have over 10 years of experience.

I reckon that's decently inline with the level of experience and above that would be icing. When I look at salary levels in SA then getting closer to the R90-R100k mark at this point is the glass ceiling. At that point you'd need a pretty useful new skillset to be able to justify further increases.

I think on the flipside of this is that we so often see salary surveys on MyBB where the results are pretty low, the reason being that those that take the time to fill in these surveys are people that are not happy or not reaching their full potential for the job.

I wouldn't say you are underpaid but I'd definitely say that there are tons of people bringing the average salary down a few notches because they get what they are worth.

 

[Messugga]

Makes me wonder if I am still underpaid then. In the last 2 and a half years, I have got massive raises. I'm now on R75k gross excluding bonuses. So I now wonder if I am still underpaid. I have over 10 years of experience.

Esperience doesn't mean terribly much. It's about what you can do. Funnily enough, I've seen many times how fresh guys outperform people who have been around for 25 years when it comes to code. They're more clued up on current tech and carry less baggage.

There are also graphs going around that show how developer salaries start dipping after enough years. Probably driven by the person's language of choice becoming obsolete, coupled with an unwillingness to learn new tech.

It's an interesting problem.

With that being said, I've also had to get quotes from retired devs who built core banking systems, thus had very specialised knowledge. They were asking insane rates but the quotes were approved.

 

[cguy]

Esperience doesn't mean terribly much. It's about what you can do. Funnily enough, I've seen many times how fresh guys outperform people who have been around for 25 years when it comes to code. They're more clued up on current tech and carry less baggage.

There are also graphs going around that show how developer salaries start dipping after enough years. Probably driven by the person's language of choice becoming obsolete, coupled with an unwillingness to learn new tech.

It's an interesting problem.

With that being said, I've also had to get quotes from retired devs who built core banking systems, thus had very specialised knowledge. They were asking insane rates but the quotes were approved.

What is insane by SA standards?

On the very “experienced” dev salary dip, in my experience it’s primarily an issue when glass ceilings are hit. When a developer realizes that they can’t really make more and/or get promoted from where they currently are, there is little incentive to keep up on things or learn new tech, which eventually bites them when they move jobs. Also, since in SA management is usually a pay tier over developers, there is some selection bias due to ambitious people moving into management in order to progress their career and/or pay.

There is a big discrepancy here between SA and places like Silicon Valley here (I would say that Europe falls somewhere in the middle). One of the reasons SV is so successful is that they manage to keep very experienced developers engaged in terms of both work and pay (developers can get and/or exceed management salaries), which allows them to develop and leverage this advanced skill set effectively.

 

[NoviceDIYer]

It does seem ridiculous on the surface but at the end of the day there is a very large supply of developers that only know the basics and refuse to keep on learning and this is solely because they don't truly have the heart to be in software development. This is evident in the amount of interviews you have to do before you get one person that can actually free think to come up with solutions to problems. Throughout my career I've come across the situation time and again of making hires, and for every 25+ people that you interview, only person is acceptible. Acceptible being the keyword. Not good, not great, not just right, just acceptible.

It takes a certain analytical mind to be an effective software developer and if you are above average it is not that hard to command such these salaries (within reason as it gets to a point where you ability to negotiate salary and be confident in your skills comes into play).

100% agree with all that you wrote. Recruiting for a good developer is very hard - the jobs are there but the skills are hard to find.

 

[NoviceDIYer]

May as well throw my hat in. I’m in software development and earn R90k p/m cost to company. Age 42, single. No company pension or benefits.

I do help out family members who are going through a tough time.