How much the SABC owes South African musicians

Bradley Prior

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How much the SABC owes South African musicians

In response to a question in parliament by the DA, Minister of Communications Stella Ndabeni-Abrahams has revealed that the SABC owes musicians over R248 million in royalties.

The music organisations that are owed money include SAMRO and SAMPRA.
 

Superjakes

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I read this more as the SABC (government owned/controlled) is owing other government bodies 248m. Not sure how many 'musicians' rely on these royalties to put food on the table. I can just imagine Bono saying in a thick Irish accent "I cannee save those kids in Africa, since I am still waiting for me musical SASSA card..."

But what do I know...
 

eg2505

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so hlaudi s policies were just to enrich himself/ his buddies, not to actually give SA artists anything back in turn.

so this is what finally became of 90% local content rule, more money for me/my freinds and nothing for you.
 

Swa

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It's ironic that once upon a time you had to buy airtime to have your music played. From what I understand a lot of music and videos aren't paid for. Sort of like a sample of their work that artists release. If as a struggling artist you can't sell enough to make a living perhaps you should find another job instead of going after those that give you publicity.
 

Lucas Buck

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Why does the money have to go through so many third parties before they reach the artist. What is the point of most of these organisations.
 
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garyc

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So the SABC has used the artist's works to the tune of R248M without paying them. Does this make the SABC the biggest music pirates in South Africa?
 

Lucas Buck

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So the SABC has used the artist's works to the tune of R248M without paying them. Does this make the SABC the biggest music pirates in South Africa?
The Sabc are the Blackbeard of piracy, they seem to make no profits from their ventures though.

What I'd like to know is how much of the 248 million owed to these organisations will end up in the hands of the artitsts.
South African Music Rights Organisation (SAMRO) R125,804,694 South African Music Performance Rights Association (SAMPRA) R104,214,525 Association of Independent Record Companies (AIRCO) R8,800,000 Recording Industry of South Africa (RISA) R3,300,000 Composers, Authors and Publishers Association (CAPASSO) R6,000,000
 

dabbler

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Does Sentech get paid? If the transmitters go off air then don't blame load shedding.
 

The Darkness

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It's ironic that once upon a time you had to buy airtime to have your music played. From what I understand a lot of music and videos aren't paid for. Sort of like a sample of their work that artists release. If as a struggling artist you can't sell enough to make a living perhaps you should find another job instead of going after those that give you publicity.
You are so ill informed it's astounding! The 'payola' you are referring to is/was an underhanded 'pass-a-brown-envelope-to-a-Dj to spin your record. This is not common practice. Music gets paid for by radio stations and TV stations. In terms of radio, it's there to keep you tuned in so they can play you advertising, which is what pays for the whole machine. Music is an intellectual property asset and for SABC to not pay royalties due is fraud. Streaming services (Spotify etc) are also to blame for literally destroying the revenue model of music creators. This has a knock on effect in that CD shops, record companies etc cannot cope with the downturn. This has affected art itself in that the record companies only invest in sure returns, and so the middle market (the rough diamonds) is dead. Art has lost its risk factor, and artists now have to make money from shows/touring, which results in making shitty art on the road, instead of investing time in the studio.
But yes, perhaps we should find a different job for sure. I mean, you have all you need right? You've got your Kurt Darren 'Kaptein' CD already so who cares right?
 

The Darkness

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Why does the money have to go through so many third parties before they reach the artist. What is the point of most of these organisations.
SAMRO etc administer copyright and collect royalties. If you can imagine, a song might get played on many different mediums, and have many different licence arrangements. SAMRO holds blanket royalties for artists, which in turn is collected by the publishers. Imagine that in a year one could produce many many royalty generating assets which in turn all need to be tracked (via flighting codes/cue sheets etc).

There are other bigger issues, which here is not the place to discuss, but you get the idea.
 

Swa

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You are so ill informed it's astounding! The 'payola' you are referring to is/was an underhanded 'pass-a-brown-envelope-to-a-Dj to spin your record. This is not common practice. Music gets paid for by radio stations and TV stations. In terms of radio, it's there to keep you tuned in so they can play you advertising, which is what pays for the whole machine. Music is an intellectual property asset and for SABC to not pay royalties due is fraud. Streaming services (Spotify etc) are also to blame for literally destroying the revenue model of music creators. This has a knock on effect in that CD shops, record companies etc cannot cope with the downturn. This has affected art itself in that the record companies only invest in sure returns, and so the middle market (the rough diamonds) is dead. Art has lost its risk factor, and artists now have to make money from shows/touring, which results in making shitty art on the road, instead of investing time in the studio.
But yes, perhaps we should find a different job for sure. I mean, you have all you need right? You've got your Kurt Darren 'Kaptein' CD already so who cares right?
No it wasn't. You don't seem to know your history and that playing music on radio wasn't always a thing. The main thing of radio was news. It's only later that top songs were played and most unknown musicians that thought they could make it would have to buy air time. It's only much later that a fair exposure model was developed. I can guarantee you MC doesn't pay for every fly by night that sends them a video. Most artists are just too glad they get some exposure for their nonsense. Artists even release their videos on Youtube now to sample their work, though with enough of a following it's possible to monetise that a little. I have a feeling the royalties the SABC owes are for other things and not mere songs being played.

No, streaming services only destroyed the revenue model of the middle man. You no longer need to have a record company and can go at it alone. That's what the crying is about.

"But yes, perhaps we should find a different job for sure. I mean, you have all you need right? You've got your Kurt Darren 'Kaptein' CD already so who cares right?"
So that's what it's about. You can't make it in the big world and want someone to give you a handout. Well here's the reality. As someone new who nobody's ever heard of nobody necessarily want to hear from you. They're doing you a favour playing your stuff. If you can't make your money from CDs and now streaming then it means you were never any good and it shouldn't have been played to begin with. Face it, the market is overcrowded with crap as everybody thinks they can sing. Not everybody is or even should be trying to be a Kurt Darren.

EDIT: For the record I don't have any Kurt Darren CDs. My music taste is much more select than that.
 
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The Darkness

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No it wasn't. You don't seem to know your history and that playing music on radio wasn't always a thing. The main thing of radio was news. It's only later that top songs were played and most unknown musicians that thought they could make it would have to buy air time. It's only much later that a fair exposure model was developed. I can guarantee you MC doesn't pay for every fly by night that sends them a video. Most artists are just too glad they get some exposure for their nonsense. Artists even release their videos on Youtube now to sample their work, though with enough of a following it's possible to monetise that a little. I have a feeling the royalties the SABC owes are for other things and not mere songs being played.

No, streaming services only destroyed the revenue model of the middle man. You no longer need to have a record company and can go at it alone. That's what the crying is about.

"But yes, perhaps we should find a different job for sure. I mean, you have all you need right? You've got your Kurt Darren 'Kaptein' CD already so who cares right?"
So that's what it's about. You can't make it in the big world and want someone to give you a handout. Well here's the reality. As someone new who nobody's ever heard of nobody necessarily want to hear from you. They're doing you a favour playing your stuff. If you can't make your money from CDs and now streaming then it means you were never any good and it shouldn't have been played to begin with. Face it, the market is overcrowded with crap as everybody thinks they can sing. Not everybody is or even should be trying to be a Kurt Darren.

EDIT: For the record I don't have any Kurt Darren CDs. My music taste is much more select than that.
Again, you really don't have a clue how any of this works. You really don't.
 

Swa

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Again, you really don't have a clue how any of this works. You really don't.
Or you're just not old enough to know how it's worked and changed over the years. As a new musician you have it easy with promotion. Even some of our greats had to pay to get anywhere. But alas investing in your own future isn't something that exists any more. The culture of entitlement is everywhere.
 

The Darkness

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Or you're just not old enough to know how it's worked and changed over the years. As a new musician you have it easy with promotion. Even some of our greats had to pay to get anywhere. But alas investing in your own future isn't something that exists any more. The culture of entitlement is everywhere.
I've been a pro in the music industry for 20 years! Like I said, you have no clue how the system works, how it's changed, nor the actual impact on artists, producers and labels. What are your credentials in the record business?
 

rwenzori

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SAMRO etc administer copyright and collect royalties. If you can imagine, a song might get played on many different mediums, and have many different licence arrangements. SAMRO holds blanket royalties for artists, which in turn is collected by the publishers. Imagine that in a year one could produce many many royalty generating assets which in turn all need to be tracked (via flighting codes/cue sheets etc).

I'm intrigued. What sort of numbers are we talking - have you any examples of what was paid to some artists, and on what basis ( plays/downloads/whatever else )?
 
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