How much you will have to pay to say “Goodbye Eskom”

Seriously

Honorary Master
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Was looking for the original article saying where they were shipping but this one would have to suffice. After the initial successful pilots in 2012-2013 large scale production was started last year with a new plant.

There's also this. Back to your original objection you highlighted the wrong piece:

As you can see the slow and steady operation is actually a 4-hour cycle. Sufficient for domestic use and the improvements to the second generation yields a 40% increase under these conditions.

When you use your geyser or stove then unfortunately the slow discharge of the batteries is not guaranteed. Better then to us the Lithium-ion you suggested first as they can deep cycle to 100%.
 

Swa

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When you use your geyser or stove then unfortunately the slow discharge of the batteries is not guaranteed. Better then to us the Lithium-ion you suggested first as they can deep cycle to 100%.
A geyser or stove would drain one stack in an hour. Really if your power requirements are such you're not going to use just one stack. If your current Li-ion pack is going to drain in an hour that is also a flaw for your requirements. No battery can deep cycle to 100%. These batteries can also deep cycle to near 100% without it affecting their performance and lifespan.
 

Seriously

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A geyser or stove would drain one stack in an hour. Really if your power requirements are such you're not going to use just one stack. If your current Li-ion pack is going to drain in an hour that is also a flaw for your requirements. No battery can deep cycle to 100%. These batteries can also deep cycle to near 100% without it affecting their performance and lifespan.

Key Features & Benefits:

Long Life
ƒ - ƒƒExceptional 100% deep discharge cycle life
ƒƒ - Superior float, calendar, and shelf life
ƒƒ - Excellent partial state-of-charge endurance

- See more at: http://www.neces.com/products-modules-lead-acid.htm?mform=redirect#sthash.W0Gmczc9.dpuf

Electrical Characteristics at 25°C 12V35s 12V35i HP
Nominal Voltage 13.2 V
Nominal Capacity1 35 Ah
Available Energy (BOL) 462 Wh
Max. Charge/Discharge Current Pulse
(1 sec) 250 A
Max. Inrush Current
(Charge or Discharge) 500 A
Max. Continuous Discharge Current
(to 100% Depth of Discharge) 105 A4
210 A4

Max. Continuous Charge Current 105 A4
210 A4
Max. Recommended Charge Voltage 14.4 V
Max. Charge Voltage (w/o damage) 60 V
Recommended Float Voltage 13.6 - 14.4 V
Charge time @ max rate 10 min.
@ 6C
20 min.
@ 3C
Min. Float Voltage 13.6 V
Under-voltage Limit (min) 8 V

PrintScreen001.jpg
 

ellyally

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Feb 7, 2013
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Unfortunately in South Africa its illegal to do that. Only Eskom is allowed to supply electricity.
You can supply for yourself, but you can't supply a neighbour, even if its for free.

It might be viable in a complex (townhouse or flats) though, as thats considered one area vs multiple.

Bah, so if eskom can't supply electricity, no one can
 

richjdavies

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It cannot be total BS as there could be claims and class actions. :p

Li-Ion can charge/discharge much for fully than other batteries -- and basically these batteries must have some electronics in them so they shut off before going too low -- then they rate them at that 'shut-off' point.

I'm sure they'll be expensive.

But I'd be tempted to believe NEC, they aren't a fly-by-night kind of company!
 

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richjdavies

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WRT to the communal power idea.
I think it's very do-able. Just like people setting up their own local WISPs etc... You are allowed to have Home Owners Associations splitting power across multiple sites. You just can't use Eskom's equipment to do it.
You already get that with 'street lighting' provided to complexes etc -- and some places even get a bill for the whole lot from Eskom and have to figure out how to split it between them. As such, you could start off with 'effective' net-metering across the whole site -- reducing the Eskom bill; and then some kind of local backup - whether batteries topping up with solar, possibly with batteries + topping up with generator...
Office Blocks do this all the time, so it's certainly do-able. Even is Eskom bills you all at individually -- easier if they bill you as a group.
 

Swa

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It cannot be total BS as there could be claims and class actions. :p
As Richjdavies says. Li-ion has internal protection circuitry. They have to cut off a some point as some cells will go into reverse polarity charge if you try to deplete a battery. They rate them at that level so it becomes the capacity after an initial charge. I'm also sure NEC's ratings are fairly accurate but take a look how quick it starts falling. These salt based ones only really start falling at the end of their rated life.
 

Seriously

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Li-Ion can charge/discharge much for fully than other batteries -- and basically these batteries must have some electronics in them so they shut off before going too low -- then they rate them at that 'shut-off' point.

I'm sure they'll be expensive.

But I'd be tempted to believe NEC, they aren't a fly-by-night kind of company!

More:

Nanophosphate® Lithium Iron Phosphate Cell Technology

Today, NEC Energy Solutions is proud to feature industry-leading Nanophosphate lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) technology from A123 Systems. Nanophosphate delivers high power and energy density combined with excellent safety performance and extensive life cycling in a lighter weight, more compact package. It has low capacity loss and impedance growth over time, allowing systems to meet end-of-life power and energy requirements with minimal pack oversizing.

The Nanophosphate Advantage:

High Power:
Higher charge and discharge rates for better performance and efficiency
Higher Usable Energy:
Wide SOC (State of Charge) range enables greater battery utilization
Excellent Safety:
Superior abuse tolerance
Extended Cycle Life:
Long battery life for both deep and shallow cycling


The A123 Systems Nanophosphate lithium-ion chemistry provides an excellent combination of power, usable energy, safety, and cycle life.


Power:

Nanophosphate is a positive electrode material of remarkable rate capability, critical to high power systems. Our high power products are able to pulse at discharge rates as high as 100C and deliver superior power by weight or volume in a cost effective solution. With their low impedance and thermally conductive design, A123 Systems high power cells can be continuously discharged at a 35C rate, a marked improvement over other rechargeable battery alternatives, and have consistent power over wide state of charge (SOC) range.

Safety:

Safety begins with chemistry. Nanophosphate is stable chemically, which provides the foundation for safe systems while meeting the most demanding customer requirements. Multiple layers of protection are employed at the chemistry, cell and system level to achieve an energy storage solution with superior safety and abuse tolerance compared to metal oxide lithium ion chemistries.

Life:

The Nanophosphate technology delivers exceptional calendar and cycle life. At low rates these cells can deliver thousands of cycles at 100% depth of discharge (DOD), a feat unmatched by most commercial lithium ion cells. Even when cycled at 10C discharge rates, these cells deliver in excess of 1,000 full DOD cycles. Not only does it retain its energy, it also retains its power capability.

Energy:

Nanophosphate batteries have higher usable energy than other lithium ion technologies which enables greater battery utilization. Its high usable energy results from the combination of excellent abuse tolerance and calendar life at high state of charge (SOC), as well as excellent power capability at low SOC. In addition, the technology has excellent deep-discharge cycle life, meaning that you don’t need to protect the battery by cycling it more shallowly. This allows the battery to be used over a wide range of SOC. Deeper cycling and a wider usable SOC range means higher usable energy; more of the battery’s energy can actually be utilized in the application.

- See more at: http://www.neces.com/lithium-iron-phosphate-battery.htm#sthash.pbPxb7Yd.dpuf

Price will probably be :sick:


PS: found a local supplier.

Ultrabatt multiMIGHTY per unit R1085 Vat inclusive + delivery
(courier or postal) i.e for the batteries listed above 2 x R1085

http://www.bikegear.co.za/f8996045-1b18-4093-8d96-d86121adaecd-9.html

Will ask Isheed_cn for price.
 
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Sonic2k

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I did a lot of solar work in Zim last year.
The panels were R1500 each, they each gave 30 odd volts at 8.4A with direct sunlight.
Used two 12V deep cycle batteries, and an inverter.

The batteries were R1200 each, the inverter close to R10k and the inverters were crap, unreliable Chinese junk.

Four panels is not enough to charge these batteries. Also, pulling 3kW from the inverter, will deplete those batteries in 28 minutes.
I left the company because they refused to listen to reason, or the results of my actual tests.

What is missing from these articles.. is the need for a MPPT system. A good one will set you back at least R6k. This converts whatever the solar panels are pushing out, to something that can charge the batteries. You cannot use the batteries and charge them at the same time either... doesn't work like that.

The system also performed poorly in overcast, rainy weather. This is the key reason why I have been reluctant to buy panels for my home.
 

Section Eight

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I do believe that the cost effectiveness and just the effectiveness of relying on just solar power is not the answer. A system using different sources of power, including solar is the answer. We have proved one theory where we can generate as much power as you like, using as little as 2 lt of petrol a day.
https://www.facebook.com/sectioneightpower
 

Paul_S

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We have proved one theory where we can generate as much power as you like, using as little as 2 lt of petrol a day.
https://www.facebook.com/sectioneightpower

For the prices of your systems one may as well just use a Honda inverter generator and skip the batteries and inverter altogether.
The inverter generators use very little fuel at low load because they are able to reduce the RPM significantly unlike standard non-inverter type generator sets which need to run at a fixed RPM to maintain the AC frequency.

e.g.
The Honda EU10i (900 W) can run for 8.3 hours @ 1/4 load on 2.3 litres (0.277 litres/hour @ 1/4 load)
The Honda EU30i (2.6 kW) can run for 7.7 hours @ 1/4 load on 5.9 litres. (0.766 litres/hour @ 1/4 load)
 
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Compton_effect

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For the prices of your systems one may as well just use a Honda inverter generator and skip the batteries and inverter altogether.
The inverter generators use very little fuel at low load because they are able to reduce the RPM significantly unlike standard non-inverter type generator sets which need to run at a fixed RPM to maintain the AC frequency.

e.g.
The Honda EU10i (900 W) can run for 8.3 hours @ 1/4 load on 2.3 litres (0.277 litres/hour @ 1/4 load)
The Honda EU30i (2.6 kW) can run for 7.7 hours @ 1/4 load on 5.9 litres. (0.766 litres/hour @ 1/4 load)

The problem is finding a decently priced Inverter Generator. By end of Feb we'll be swamped in offers as retailers ship in large volumes of them. My short term goal is riding out load shedding events. Long term - Going partially independent.
 

Section Eight

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Two things. One you have to run the genny or no power. It will shake itself to death in a short while if you run it 24/7.
Two our system is modular, the Honda limits you severely.
 

Section Eight

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There is a way to use power and charge at the same time. I am running my laptop right now and the batteries are charging. Please note, I am NOT the technical guy in Section Eight.
 

Everyones-a-Wally

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Partially independent is what I want too, but I don't want a genny - I want a long run UPS - just 2kVA that will run lights, security cameras, entertainment and internet. Gas stove for cooking and kettle will do me fine. The UPS can also protect the equipment while the power is on.
 
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Everyones-a-Wally

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There is a way to use power and charge at the same time. I am running my laptop right now and the batteries are charging. Please note, I am NOT the technical guy in Section Eight.

Do you have a website apart from the Facebook page? It's no fun sifting through FB posts to find information on what you market.
 

The_Ogre

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The problem is finding a decently priced Inverter Generator. By end of Feb we'll be swamped in offers as retailers ship in large volumes of them. My short term goal is riding out load shedding events. Long term - Going partially independent.
This is me as well.

I have two TV's, an Explora, an 1131 decoder and a Roku. That's around 1 kilowatt. If I can get these items off the grid then I'm golden!

For lighting I'm slowly changing all my bulbs to rechargeable LED bulbs.

The washing machine and fridges can stay on the grid, whether these are on or off for a couple of hours a day doesn't phase me.

The stove is being replaced with a gas stove and the geyser with a solar geyser

So my primary focus is powering my entertainment independently from Eskom and I will be trying to do this by having it powered directly from a grid-tie inverter during the day and a battery bank during the night - from 17:00 to 22:00, so only about 5 hours. I'll need to engage the CoCT to get going!
 
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