How the chartered flight for Afrikaner refugees to the United States was approved

wizardofid said:
It isn't an "if"

How many statues have been removed entirely, defaced or protested about and to what end, there are several that have nothing to do directly or indirectly with colonialism nor apartheid, and it is mostly those born after 1994 that don't have the faintest idea nor a clue behind the historic figures.

There are some I would agree are fair game like verwoed. Then you have someone like Paul Kruger who actually fought against colonialism from British occupation, wrongly associating Afrikaans as the evil colonists. They were protesting to remove his bust from the kruger park entrance but have nothing against kruger rands, it is only applicable when it suits their agenda and often little or no grasps behind their protests nor history of the particular figures they are so vehemently against.

Not that their record is entirely spotless either, they did force indigenous people off land did have slaves at one point.

But there is no reason for trying to entirely remove history of how south africa came to be, we often forget the history and power struggles of indigenous people as well, especially the zulus and their genocidal tendencies to wipe out entire tribes or assimilate them. It is perfectly okay to celebrate a genocidal maniac like shaka who is directly responsible for 200K+ deaths.

I often wonder whether it is corrective or retaliatory policy....

The constitution isn't worth the paper it is written on.....it intends to protect especially woman, children and minorities, have you actively see it progressively used to protect them on a large scale, very little is stopping the majority from giving a flying fck.

Now for the second part.
There are several minority groups that have decent protection of culture in the US, like the Amish and native Indians, not like the native indians have ever forgiven the US who are colonists themselves animosity is still there to some extend. Both native Indians and Amish are able to actively practice their respective cultures without too much intervention from the US government.

There is an ex Amish guy on youtube that explains it pretty well how daily life is like in Amish communities and life outside of them.

So it would be entirely possible given enough time and people a pocket or pocket(s) of Afrikaans communities can still practice and protect culture and heritage in isolation from the motherland without assimilation.

We in south Africa are a prime example of that, Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese ect and their culture and heritage is quite evident in most corners or communities you find them in.

Personally it is never the end of culture once you move it isn't a fixed thing that is immovable you can practice and observe it anywhere you are, given enough people and time you are more likely to eventually evolve from it, much like Afrikaans eventually evolved from the original dutch settlers and the Afrikaans language, It isn't about the US, but rather whether or not the people are willing to teach and keep it alive.

It is only the end if you let it be, afrikaans people are hardy and quite stubborn I don't see them letting go of their culture anytime soon.Culture also isn't just people, it is food, music, ideology and several other aspects that make it up as a whole.

My only concern is inbreeding it is quite rife in amish communities, however that is only because of isolation, so might not even be a problem. The most probable thing to happen over time is dilution and assimilation over time
Click to expand...
Tldr
 
wizardofid said:
It isn't an "if"

How many statues have been removed entirely, defaced or protested about and to what end, there are several that have nothing to do directly or indirectly with colonialism nor apartheid, and it is mostly those born after 1994 that don't have the faintest idea nor a clue behind the historic figures.

There are some I would agree are fair game like verwoed. Then you have someone like Paul Kruger who actually fought against colonialism from British occupation, wrongly associating Afrikaans as the evil colonists. They were protesting to remove his bust from the kruger park entrance but have nothing against kruger rands, it is only applicable when it suits their agenda and often little or no grasps behind their protests nor history of the particular figures they are so vehemently against.

Not that their record is entirely spotless either, they did force indigenous people off land did have slaves at one point.

But there is no reason for trying to entirely remove history of how south africa came to be, we often forget the history and power struggles of indigenous people as well, especially the zulus and their genocidal tendencies to wipe out entire tribes or assimilate them. It is perfectly okay to celebrate a genocidal maniac like shaka who is directly responsible for 200K+ deaths.

I often wonder whether it is corrective or retaliatory policy....

The constitution isn't worth the paper it is written on.....it intends to protect especially woman, children and minorities, have you actively see it progressively used to protect them on a large scale, very little is stopping the majority from giving a flying fck.

Now for the second part.
There are several minority groups that have decent protection of culture in the US, like the Amish and native Indians, not like the native indians have ever forgiven the US who are colonists themselves animosity is still there to some extend. Both native Indians and Amish are able to actively practice their respective cultures without too much intervention from the US government.

There is an ex Amish guy on youtube that explains it pretty well how daily life is like in Amish communities and life outside of them.

So it would be entirely possible given enough time and people a pocket or pocket(s) of Afrikaans communities can still practice and protect culture and heritage in isolation from the motherland without assimilation.

We in south Africa are a prime example of that, Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese ect and their culture and heritage is quite evident in most corners or communities you find them in.

Personally it is never the end of culture once you move it isn't a fixed thing that is immovable you can practice and observe it anywhere you are, given enough people and time you are more likely to eventually evolve from it, much like Afrikaans eventually evolved from the original dutch settlers and the Afrikaans language, It isn't about the US, but rather whether or not the people are willing to teach and keep it alive.

It is only the end if you let it be, afrikaans people are hardy and quite stubborn I don't see them letting go of their culture anytime soon.Culture also isn't just people, it is food, music, ideology and several other aspects that make it up as a whole.

My only concern is inbreeding it is quite rife in amish communities, however that is only because of isolation, so might not even be a problem. The most probable thing to happen over time is dilution and assimilation over time
Click to expand...
What a hypocritical comparison.

Did native Indians, Amish, Indian, pakistani, Chinese gave most of the rights to only their tribe on rest of the population for close to 50 years (way more in USA) ?

*Here is your cue to tell us how apartheid allowed Mbeki to study in London etc.
 
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wizardofid said:
How many places, landmarks, street names have been changed. "To address the legacy of colonialism and apartheid" as an excuse.
To be fair I can understand within reason to allow fair representation of all cultures, systematically erasing all of it, in favor of the majority not so much.
Click to expand...
How many Afrikaner monuments/landmarks have been erased? Last I checked, the Voortrekker monument is still standing. Pretoria is still called Pretoria, as is Bloemfontein. How many streets with Afrikaans names can you find in the average SA city? Hell, I live in Durban and I reckon I could find plenty.

Saying that Afrikaaner culture is being erased just because some places have been renamed is not very convincing...
 
wizardofid said:
It isn't an "if"

How many statues have been removed entirely, defaced or protested about and to what end, there are several that have nothing to do directly or indirectly with colonialism nor apartheid, and it is mostly those born after 1994 that don't have the faintest idea nor a clue behind the historic figures.

There are some I would agree are fair game like verwoed. Then you have someone like Paul Kruger who actually fought against colonialism from British occupation, wrongly associating Afrikaans as the evil colonists. They were protesting to remove his bust from the kruger park entrance but have nothing against kruger rands, it is only applicable when it suits their agenda and often little or no grasps behind their protests nor history of the particular figures they are so vehemently against.

Not that their record is entirely spotless either, they did force indigenous people off land did have slaves at one point.

But there is no reason for trying to entirely remove history of how south africa came to be, we often forget the history and power struggles of indigenous people as well, especially the zulus and their genocidal tendencies to wipe out entire tribes or assimilate them. It is perfectly okay to celebrate a genocidal maniac like shaka who is directly responsible for 200K+ deaths.

I often wonder whether it is corrective or retaliatory policy....

The constitution isn't worth the paper it is written on.....it intends to protect especially woman, children and minorities, have you actively see it progressively used to protect them on a large scale, very little is stopping the majority from giving a flying fck.

Now for the second part.
There are several minority groups that have decent protection of culture in the US, like the Amish and native Indians, not like the native indians have ever forgiven the US who are colonists themselves animosity is still there to some extend. Both native Indians and Amish are able to actively practice their respective cultures without too much intervention from the US government.

There is an ex Amish guy on youtube that explains it pretty well how daily life is like in Amish communities and life outside of them.

So it would be entirely possible given enough time and people a pocket or pocket(s) of Afrikaans communities can still practice and protect culture and heritage in isolation from the motherland without assimilation.

We in south Africa are a prime example of that, Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese ect and their culture and heritage is quite evident in most corners or communities you find them in.

Personally it is never the end of culture once you move it isn't a fixed thing that is immovable you can practice and observe it anywhere you are, given enough people and time you are more likely to eventually evolve from it, much like Afrikaans eventually evolved from the original dutch settlers and the Afrikaans language, It isn't about the US, but rather whether or not the people are willing to teach and keep it alive.

It is only the end if you let it be, afrikaans people are hardy and quite stubborn I don't see them letting go of their culture anytime soon.Culture also isn't just people, it is food, music, ideology and several other aspects that make it up as a whole.

My only concern is inbreeding it is quite rife in amish communities, however that is only because of isolation, so might not even be a problem. The most probable thing to happen over time is dilution and assimilation over time
Click to expand...

I agree with you on the futility of mucking about with statues apart from some extreme cases.

I don't think you can compare Amish communities who have been around for a couple of hundred years, let alone the indigenous native American people with our dear old Amerikaner refugees though.

One of the biggest criticisms refugees cop is a lack of will to integrate into their adoptive society. People reeee about that continually. I think it it would be extremely misguided of them to try and create some sort of Volkstaat - it would really create a bad impression. And why would they? It's entirely possible to stay close to your culture without hiding away.

Anyway, who know. Perhaps old Donny will dump them all in South Side Chicago... 😳
 
Cray said:
How many Afrikaner monuments/landmarks have been erased? Last I checked, the Voortrekker monument is still standing. Pretoria is still called Pretoria, as is Bloemfontein. How many streets with Afrikaans names can you find in the average SA city? Hell, I live in Durban and I reckon I could find plenty.

Saying that Afrikaaner culture is being erased just because some places have been renamed is not very convincing...
Click to expand...

There is still a Hendrik Verwoerd drive in Centurion.
 
Sideshow Bob said:
What a hypocritical comparison.

Did native Indians, Amish, Indian, pakistani, Chinese gave most of the rights to only their tribe on rest of the population for close to 50 years?
Click to expand...
Sigh uneducated troll I see

Amish have faced historical persecution. Prove me wrong, go ahead I will wait.
In some cases, Amish individuals have been victims of hate crimes motivated by religious differences within the Amish community,
The 1972 Supreme Court case that recognized the Amish's right to withdraw their children from public education after the 8th grade
Cases of violence and hate crimes within the Amish community, such as the 2011 attacks in Ohio, have drawn attention to religious divisions and tensions.
Amish rights and culture weren't always protected as they were now. In fact ironically the amish fled to the US because of persecution in Europe and faced similar challenges......It wasn't until several court cases and laws passed that protected their way of life.......Please for all that is holy educated your self.....
Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 and the Geary Act

Anti-Chinese violence erupted in various parts of the US, including towns in California and other Western states, leading to the expulsion, beating, and even lynching of Chinese immigrants
Chinese immigrants faced various forms of legal and social discrimination, including being denied access to education, housing, and other basic services.
While Japanese Americans were forcibly relocated to internment camps, Chinese Americans experienced harassment, violence, and a societal atmosphere of distrust fueled by the broader anti-Japanese sentiment following Pearl Harbor
Native Indians ( it is pretty god damn well known the amount of persecution, exclusion, racism and genocide they endured).
Seems you need to catch up on your history lessons

Jim Crow laws

Yeah no seems like you are pretty clued up on the fcked up US history, of passing laws to, exclude, segregate and diminish minority groups
 
Cray said:
How many Afrikaner monuments/landmarks have been erased? Last I checked, the Voortrekker monument is still standing. Pretoria is still called Pretoria, as is Bloemfontein. How many streets with Afrikaans names can you find in the average SA city? Hell, I live in Durban and I reckon I could find plenty.

Saying that Afrikaaner culture is being erased just because some places have been renamed is not very convincing...
Click to expand...
I don't see renaming apartheid icon road/monument names to other names as erasing afrikaner history unless afrikaner argument is that apartheid and afrikaner are one and the same.
 
wizardofid said:
Sigh uneducated troll I see

Amish have faced historical persecution. Prove me wrong, go ahead I will wait.
In some cases, Amish individuals have been victims of hate crimes motivated by religious differences within the Amish community,
The 1972 Supreme Court case that recognized the Amish's right to withdraw their children from public education after the 8th grade
Cases of violence and hate crimes within the Amish community, such as the 2011 attacks in Ohio, have drawn attention to religious divisions and tensions.
Amish rights and culture weren't always protected as they were now. In fact ironically the amish fled to the US because of persecution in Europe and faced similar challenges......It wasn't until several court cases and laws passed that protected their way of life.......Please for all that is holy educated your self.....
Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 and the Geary Act

Anti-Chinese violence erupted in various parts of the US, including towns in California and other Western states, leading to the expulsion, beating, and even lynching of Chinese immigrants
Chinese immigrants faced various forms of legal and social discrimination, including being denied access to education, housing, and other basic services.
While Japanese Americans were forcibly relocated to internment camps, Chinese Americans experienced harassment, violence, and a societal atmosphere of distrust fueled by the broader anti-Japanese sentiment following Pearl Harbor
Native Indians ( it is pretty god damn well known the amount of persecution, exclusion, racism and genocide they endured).
Seems you need to catch up on your history lessons

Jim Crow laws

Yeah no seems like you are pretty clued up on the fcked up US history, of passing laws to, exclude, segregate and diminish minority groups
Click to expand...
Long wall of text. Did you even read what I typed ? Read again.
 
vigras rojara said:
We have no actual facts regarding who these people are and what they did for a living in SA.

So all speculation, whether it's that they were car guards from Pretoria or board members of AgriSA, is all kinda meaningless.
Click to expand...
Exactly which is why it pisses me off when people are judging people based on a photo.
They have no idea what some of these people are scarifying to make sure that their kids have a safer life.
 
konfab said:
Still a productive member of society. Looks like quite a nice guest farm.

View attachment 1819874

Bit of a slice of heaven.

View attachment 1819873https://www.lekkeslaap.co.za/accommodation/oban-guest-farm

Page for the place is dead now :(

https://obanguestfarm.com/cgi-sys/suspendedpage.cgi

Giving that up must not have been easy.
Click to expand...

For sure, no doubts about being a productive member of society.

It's just that everyone's a farmer these days it seems and she isn't /wasn't.
 
Sideshow Bob said:
I don't see renaming apartheid icon road/monument names to other names as erasing afrikaner history unless afrikaner argument is that apartheid and afrikaner are one and the same.
Click to expand...
And that's the problem with the Afrikaans culture according to the likes of Afriforum, while everyone can preserve their culture just fine while coexisting with others, the right wingers believe the only way to preserve their culture is through exclusion and preservation of apartheid symbols and tendencies.
 
Cray said:
How many Afrikaner monuments/landmarks have been erased? Last I checked, the Voortrekker monument is still standing. Pretoria is still called Pretoria, as is Bloemfontein. How many streets with Afrikaans names can you find in the average SA city? Hell, I live in Durban and I reckon I could find plenty.

Saying that Afrikaaner culture is being erased just because some places have been renamed is not very convincing...
Click to expand...

You seem to be very picky with your examples.
Even your example are poor.

All your examples there were and will be again attempts to change the names.
Your Google might just be broken or it might be that you are lazy.

Pretoria
businesschief.eu

South Africa capital Pretoria to change name in 2012

South Africa capital Pretoria to change name in 2012
businesschief.eu businesschief.eu

Then Bloemfontein.

Then there was things like this.

You should rather ask the question, how many names have already been changed?
It's called death by a thousand needles for a reason.
 
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