How to find spirituality or a sense of deeper meaning as an atheist / agnostic

Techne

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That is actually remarkably true. Our viewpoint to the universe is completely filtered by the brain which in turn is translated from signals we've learned to interpret from our senses. We're not actually observing the universe as is, because we're not capable of observing it all.
Yea, whatever we observe is made and not real....
 

Techne

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What we observe is manifest and directly linked to our ability to survive/live. It is utility, nothing more.
Yeah, what you are saying now isn't true in any meaningful sense. It is just subjective waffling masturbation linked to survival.
 

Mars

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I watched the whole clip.

Bit odd that it took 12 minutes for him to say just be good.
Jordan Peterson is a crackpot. He had a splash of fame because he misunderstood some nanny state law and stood up to it, but when you actually look at what he believes, he is a nutcase. Jesus mixed with ancient aliens or some crap.

I was fundamental christian for a long time. While I was on that path I kept being told that fulfilment was "just around the corner" so to speak. If you do "these" things you will find peace in jesus, and "rest" in jesus, and so on and so on. The thing is, as much as I did all that crap I never actually had fulfilment or peace. When I brought this up with other pastors and leaders I was told that you are supposed to "yearn" for god. To spend more time on your knees to seek his face and THEN the peace will come. I meant WTF. Its all bullshit.

Honestly the spiritual part is just spending time in prayer and praise and worship. If you want that, replace the prayer with mindfulness meditation and and spend some time exercising introspection. It has the same effect. Climb a mountain or go to the beach and just sit and meditate. Dont get caught up in all these bullshit mindfulness charlatans that try and push all that chakra crap onto you either. Here is a great article on beginner mindfulness by Sam Harris. I actually only really use this method.


The deeper sense of meaning imo comes from being part of something bigger than yourself. Being part of an organisation that will notice when you are not there.

I joined the Freemasons, they're good people and they do good in the community, but they are VERY religious and I found the ceremony stifling. I also joined the neighbourhood watch and I do other community events. Even tho I did the same kind of thing with the curch, such as neighbourhood clean-ups and so on, everything was with the underlying "youre a sinner and JESUS" so it always felt tainted and the success was based on salvations or conversions. Doing it because I want the result rather than some underlying motive is much more satisfying.


If you feel that you need something more organised then maybe look for some humanism or secularism meet ups.
 

rietrot

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Jordan Peterson is a crackpot. He had a splash of fame because he misunderstood some nanny state law and stood up to it, but when you actually look at what he believes, he is a nutcase. Jesus mixed with ancient aliens or some crap.

I was fundamental christian for a long time. While I was on that path I kept being told that fulfilment was "just around the corner" so to speak. If you do "these" things you will find peace in jesus, and "rest" in jesus, and so on and so on. The thing is, as much as I did all that crap I never actually had fulfilment or peace. When I brought this up with other pastors and leaders I was told that you are supposed to "yearn" for god. To spend more time on your knees to seek his face and THEN the peace will come. I meant WTF. Its all bullshit.

Honestly the spiritual part is just spending time in prayer and praise and worship. If you want that, replace the prayer with mindfulness meditation and and spend some time exercising introspection. It has the same effect. Climb a mountain or go to the beach and just sit and meditate. Dont get caught up in all these bullshit mindfulness charlatans that try and push all that chakra crap onto you either. Here is a great article on beginner mindfulness by Sam Harris. I actually only really use this method.


The deeper sense of meaning imo comes from being part of something bigger than yourself. Being part of an organisation that will notice when you are not there.

I joined the Freemasons, they're good people and they do good in the community, but they are VERY religious and I found the ceremony stifling. I also joined the neighbourhood watch and I do other community events. Even tho I did the same kind of thing with the curch, such as neighbourhood clean-ups and so on, everything was with the underlying "youre a sinner and JESUS" so it always felt tainted and the success was based on salvations or conversions. Doing it because I want the result rather than some underlying motive is much more satisfying.


If you feel that you need something more organised then maybe look for some humanism or secularism meet ups.

Well going by how badly you missrepresented JBP, I just imagine everything else you said is also a lie. Maybe try speaking more truthfully then you'll find your peace and your conscious will stop bothering you.
 

Mars

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Well going by how badly you missrepresented JBP, I just imagine everything else you said is also a lie. Maybe try speaking more truthfully then you'll find your peace and your conscious will stop bothering you.
I just watched this , Ha ha ha ha ha


Spoiler : theyre not really, theyre just fanatics lol.
 
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DMNknight

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/snip Fallacy fallacy stuff
Religion is useful in that it creates positive pathways in which to ground oneself in good behaviors. Prayer helps you take stock of the things you are grateful for, identifying the things you have no control over etc.
Ceremony helps you embed/imprint behavior into the brain by creating useful most used pathways.
It is an outdated institution that should be discarded, but just because flint tools aren't as good as steel, it doesn't mean they're entirely useless. Historically they served their purpose.

There is nothing wrong in any kind of system if it leads to a good life. Personally I think religion is for those that are unable to manifest their own good will in their mind and need a tool to accomplish it.

This does not make Peterson a crackpot, merely a person with a useful tool. That this tool does not meet your needs is not a useful foundation upon which to call someone else a crackpot.

If you feel that you need something more organised then maybe look for some humanism or secularism meet ups.
Why look outside yourself at all? Everything important happens on the inside of the skull. Are we really that weak that we need support from others to recognize what the good things are in our lives and how our actions in the world can beget good?
Are we that weak willed that we need each other to accomplish these things?
 

Mars

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Why don't you just watch something from him and form your own opinion.
Honestly, I have watched quite a bit of his stuff and listened to (most of) his book, but he starts getting really out there. His opinion on atheists is really crazy and he believes that ancient art depicted the double helix of DNA trying to link all this old stuff to some kind of interpretation of Jesus.
He references fake stones to prove his claim in some of his videos as well.

He has some good methods for living, some utter crap methods.

I'm not sure of your position overall, weather or not you are religous, but I would encourage you to have a look at the Peterson - Dillahunty discussion to clarify his stance on atheism and morality. He is a nutcase IMO.
 

Mars

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Religion is useful in that it creates positive pathways in which to ground oneself in good behaviors. Prayer helps you take stock of the things you are grateful for, identifying the things you have no control over etc.
Ceremony helps you embed/imprint behavior into the brain by creating useful most used pathways.
It is an outdated institution that should be discarded, but just because flint tools aren't as good as steel, it doesn't mean they're entirely useless. Historically they served their purpose.

There is nothing wrong in any kind of system if it leads to a good life. Personally I think religion is for those that are unable to manifest their own good will in their mind and need a tool to accomplish it.

This does not make Peterson a crackpot, merely a person with a useful tool. That this tool does not meet your needs is not a useful foundation upon which to call someone else a crackpot.



Why look outside yourself at all? Everything important happens on the inside of the skull. Are we really that weak that we need support from others to recognize what the good things are in our lives and how our actions in the world can beget good?
Are we that weak willed that we need each other to accomplish these things?
Absolutely, there is definitely value in religious organisation. Being "born again" helped me grow as a person. Its just not the best way and has more negatives than positivs.
And some people need community, encouragement, and socialisation with like minded people. Weak willed is not the right way to describe that need.
 

rietrot

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Honestly, I have watched quite a bit of his stuff and listened to (most of) his book, but he starts getting really out there. His opinion on atheists is really crazy and he believes that ancient art depicted the double helix of DNA trying to link all this old stuff to some kind of interpretation of Jesus.
He references fake stones to prove his claim in some of his videos as well.

He has some good methods for living, some utter crap methods.

I'm not sure of your position overall, weather or not you are religous, but I would encourage you to have a look at the Peterson - Dillahunty discussion to clarify his stance on atheism and morality. He is a nutcase IMO.
O, so you have a personal problem and can't take criticism and you think he criticised your world view. Then you also don't understand what symbolism or metaphors is.
 

Mars

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O, so you have a personal problem and can't take criticism and you think he criticised your world view. Then you also don't understand what symbolism or metaphors is.
Whut? How do you get to that conclusion? Symbolism? Metaphors? He literally claims they represent the helix?
 

C4Cat

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That is actually remarkably true. Our viewpoint to the universe is completely filtered by the brain which in turn is translated from signals we've learned to interpret from our senses. We're not actually observing the universe as is, because we're not capable of observing it all.
How do you know this?
 

rietrot

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Arent I lucky lol.

Here rebuff this video:
It's a representation ie. Symbolism. You could apply the same symbolism to DNA. That DNA is the building blocks of life just as those snakes represent the same thing.

Now the really cool idea he explores is why so many ancient tribes draw it like that. Which does go a bit of the rails.

It isn't litteral, he doesn't claim ancient people knew what DNA was. He claims they got hi, and drawn the double helix that represents the same thing. That they got the symbolism correct.

I don't see any real problems.
I'll say this again, watch the actual video's off him then you'll understand the ideas he is getting at even if it is far fetched. Not rebuttals that show a 5 second segment followed with the guy pulling faces and telling you what to think(that was annoying). Think for yourself.
 

Mars

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Dude. He literally claims they took mind altering drugs and saw dna and made the drawings. I have watched some of the other videos, that was just a nice summary.
And the Ica stones? you didn't talk about those either.

Why is Jordan Peterson so important to you? Do you realise how you sound? There is no single person on this planet that is above criticism, and the fact that you almost seem to worship this guy is a bit concerning TBH.
 

DMNknight

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How do you know this?
Logic, physics and biology?

Just starting at the 5 senses:
Sight : We can only detect a small portion of the light spectrum

This is translated into signals that are transported to the occipital lobe for translation into "you speak" for what you are seeing.


(Just one example)
The bar in the middle is exactly the same color all the way through, but your brain has certain shortcuts it uses that makes you believe you see a gradient shade of grey that contrasts the background.

Furthermore, it takes information from your eyeball approximately 100ms to reach the occipital lobe and be processed. That's a lot of time for an object that is flying through the air to get closer to you, but with practise we get really good at catching things when we don't "actually" see them flying through the air.
Your brain is really good a predicting things.
https://www.livescience.com/29417-how-brain-tracks-moving-objects.html

From just that one sense, we can logically conclude that you don't see the world/universe for what it really is. Instead your brain is compensating constantly to bring you into the present from approximately 100ms behind...
 
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