Bruno123

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Apr 13, 2018
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15
We all probably have taken a Investment Policy with an Insurance Company.
Whether it is a Education Policy, Retirement Annuity, Tax Free Savings or Unit Trust or Endowment.
All the same we took it in good faith with the idea as expressed to make at least 10% return as the Salesman implied.

Have we been caught for a sucker by a salesman??
Because the next time hopefully you allow a Financial Advisor to come across your path he or she will ask "Lets look at what your Investments are currently making in respect to Interest Return".
You will be surprised to find that in most cases it is -5% to 5%
Well that would mean on a very average investment of R500pm you are losing about R770 000 over 20 yrs

MMM do we know what we truly getting on Interest Return or are you the Sucker that was caught as well ??
 

FNfal

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Jul 6, 2011
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6,367
The sales person that sold you that policy used to get your first 3 years payments as commission , so that thing was worthless for 3 years .
 

supersunbird

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One doesn't need a financial manager/salesman/broker, and the worst place to put your investments is through an Insurance Company, best to do it thought an Asset Management Company, even better if a index one.

Anyway, my 10X fund has given the following annualised return since 1 Jan 2013:
7.24%

I do not consider the above bad, given that 2015 and 2016 and first half of 2017 the SA markets were totally flat and the Rand weak, and that the market have dropped since start of 2018 and the rand has strengthened.

Could not put up my Allan Gray figures, website problem on the performance page.
 

Lord Farquart

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The exact reason I canceled those I had. I dumped all my money in property and is busy cashing out now.

My dad got suckered by one of these so called advisors (from Sanlam) shortly after he retired. The guy convinced him to reinvest his total pension in some scheme where, if he died before the end of term, he, or my mother, would get nothing. Obviously the return, if he survived, would have been great. Guess what, my dad died before end of term, and my mom got zilch. What he/they saved over 45 years went straight into the Sanlam coffers.
 

Bruno123

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Actually its 5 years. It is about 1,5% to 2% to the Advisor and worth it if achieving the set Target of between 10 to 20% returns and that is if it is an Endowment.
Unit Trusts and Tax Free work slightly differently due to lack of a set Term.

But sure it is worthless in most cases if not properly monitored and tweaked for full performance
 

Bruno123

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The exact reason I canceled those I had. I dumped all my money in property and is busy cashing out now.

My dad got suckered by one of these so called advisors (from Sanlam) shortly after he retired. The guy convinced him to reinvest his total pension in some scheme where, if he died before the end of term, he, or my mother, would get nothing. Obviously the return, if he survived, would have been great. Guess what, my dad died before end of term, and my mom got zilch. What he/they saved over 45 years went straight into the Sanlam coffers.

Yep its called a Life Annuity what he got.
Sorry to hear.
Sounded like sales and not advice OR persuasion and not advice
 

supersunbird

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Yep its called a Life Annuity what he got.
Sorry to hear.
Sounded like sales and not advice OR persuasion and not advice

Yes, a Life Annuity. They have their use, but ones has to carefully consider them and Living Annuities. or even a mix of both.
 
Last edited:

Bruno123

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Apr 13, 2018
Messages
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One doesn't need a financial manager/salesman/broker, and the worst place to put your investments is through an Insurance Company, best to do it thought an Asset Management Company, even better if a index one.

Anyway, my 10X fund has given the following annualised return since 1 Jan 2013:
7.24%

I do not consider the above bad, given that 2015 and 2016 and first half of 2017 the SA markets were totally flat and the Rand weak, and that the market have dropped since start of 2018 and the rand has strengthened.

Could not put up my Allan Gray figures, website problem on the performance page.

Yep I think you are right it does not matter where you put it through or if you manage it yourself is also just as good.
But 7% ??
Could just as well gone to Capitec on a Fixed Deposit without any Asset Management at all

As you mentioned Allan Gray
Take There Balanced Fund for Example
YTD is running at -3.3% and on the last 2 years annualized 4.4%. And that is before your Asset Fee of 1.6% deduction.
So I proved my point as above between -5% and 3% in this case.
 

supersunbird

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Yep I think you are right it does not matter where you put it through or if you manage it yourself is also just as good.
But 7% ??
Could just as well gone to Capitec on a Fixed Deposit without any Asset Management at all

As you mentioned Allan Gray
Take There Balanced Fund for Example
YTD is running at -3.3% and on the last 2 years annualized 4.4%. And that is before your Asset Fee of 1.6% deduction.
So I proved my point as above between -5% and 3% in this case.

Yes, 7.24% with a flat market, but what about 2013 when the 10X fund grew 20.35% or 2014 where it grew 14.87, no fixed account will give that.

In 2015 it grew 8.32% and in 2017 it grew 13.79%. 2016 was dismal though at 1.37% at is what drags everything down, combined with the negative growth so far his year. But it is the nature of the stock markets and why one invest there instead of the bank fixed accounts.

At the moment my monthly contributions are buying shares for cheaper, which is a good thing since I have 15 to 20 years to go still.

Here are the percentages of the biggest single shares in 10X high equity fund, so it's well diversified with not big single stock exposure:
BHP Billiton Plc 3.0%
Richemont SA 2.8%
Standard Bank Ltd 2.8%
Anglo American Plc 2.8%
Naspers Ltd 2.6%

Overseas allocation is:
Vanguard Total World Stock ETF 19.3%
US Dollars 2.5%
Vanguard Emerging Market ETF 2.4%
 

Bruno123

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Yes, 7.24% with a flat market, but what about 2013 when the 10X fund grew 20.35% or 2014 where it grew 14.87, no fixed account will give that.

In 2015 it grew 8.32% and in 2017 it grew 13.79%. 2016 was dismal though at 1.37% at is what drags everything down, combined with the negative growth so far his year. But it is the nature of the stock markets and why one invest there instead of the bank fixed accounts.

At the moment my monthly contributions are buying shares for cheaper, which is a good thing since I have 15 to 20 years to go still.

Here are the percentages of the biggest single shares in 10X high equity fund, so it's well diversified with not big single stock exposure:
BHP Billiton Plc 3.0%
Richemont SA 2.8%
Standard Bank Ltd 2.8%
Anglo American Plc 2.8%
Naspers Ltd 2.6%

Overseas allocation is:
Vanguard Total World Stock ETF 19.3%
US Dollars 2.5%
Vanguard Emerging Market ETF 2.4%

Agreed no fixed account will give a 10 to 20% returns for sure.
But my point was if you are only achieving around about the 7% average as you indicated you could just as well go fixed deposit and have no risk at all like you also have indicated.
If I am going to take risk then risk for between 12 and 17% average not 7% (and that is before you have taken off your 1 to 2% fee).
So taking Risk and making less than inflation does not sound like a wise investment unless you are a Pensioner on your last leg
 

supersunbird

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Agreed no fixed account will give a 10 to 20% returns for sure.
But my point was if you are only achieving around about the 7% average as you indicated you could just as well go fixed deposit and have no risk at all like you also have indicated.
If I am going to take risk then risk for between 12 and 17% average not 7% (and that is before you have taken off your 1 to 2% fee).
So taking Risk and making less than inflation does not sound like a wise investment unless you are a Pensioner on your last leg

That 7.24% is after fees. But the markets were flat for near 3 years. Zuma!

Putting your money in an interest paying account and then trying to buy when you think the market is going to go up, is trying to time the market. Just going to end in tears.
 

Bruno123

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Messages
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That 7.24% is after fees. But the markets were flat for near 3 years. Zuma!

Putting your money in an interest paying account and then trying to buy when you think the market is going to go up, is trying to time the market. Just going to end in tears.

Yep timing the market is only really on very Short Term Investment Portfolios, which is good to have if your Long Term is sorted. Which it sounds like your is
 

supersunbird

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I do agree though that one must be careful that one does not to get sold overly expensive products by salesmen from Life Insurers.
 

Bruno123

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Messages
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I do agree though that one must be careful that one does not to get sold overly expensive products by salesmen from Life Insurers.

Yep in a lot of cases we are sold Life and Disability Cover without the Salesmen even checking our Pension Benefit Statement wherein there might already be sufficient Cover.
 
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