Huawei Outspends Apple on R&D for a 5G Edge

rpm

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Huawei Outspends Apple on R&D for a 5G Edge

Huawei Technologies Co. wants to dominate the next generation of wireless technology and it’s investing in that goal at a pace few companies can match.

The world’s leading maker of networking equipment spent $15.3 billion on research last year.
 

ToxicBunny

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Umm I doubt Apple are spending their R&D money on the same sort of 5g stuff... Considering huawei make the core networking components and Apple don't.
 

Dolby

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I wouldn't think Apple spend much on R&D in any category actually.

They just take whatever Samsung and Huawei did a few generations back, and implement that in their current phones
 

ToxicBunny

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I wouldn't think Apple spend much on R&D in any category actually.

They just take whatever Samsung and Huawei did a few generations back, and implement that in their current phones
Their R&D budget is around $10bn... So they spend a fsckton... But nowhere near someone like huawei... And on totally different things. My guess is that in terms of 5g specifically Apple will spend minimal money as they rely on Qualcomm for the cellular modem for 5g.
 

Dolby

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Their R&D budget is around $10bn... So they spend a fsckton
On what though?

They're not exactly cutting edge when it comes to features or implementations. I'd just think that for a company putting so much into R&D, they don't have much to show for it.

Their phones generally adopt old technology from other brands
 

ToxicBunny

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On what though?

They're not exactly cutting edge when it comes to features or implementations. I'd just think that for a company putting so much into R&D, they don't have much to show for it.

Their phones generally adopt old technology from other brands
They are in many respects at the cutting edge.... As to what they spend it on it would be a closely guarded secret... Some of it is on autonomous vehicles and others would be on macos and ios and other bits on hardware design and packaging.
 

system32

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I wouldn't think Apple spend much on R&D in any category actually.

They just take whatever Samsung and Huawei did a few generations back, and implement that in their current phones
Apple were using Intel Modems whilst they pressured Qualcomm.

Intel have quit the 5G modem business and are looking to sell.

Huawei should buy the Intel's modem business - will make US happy.
 

Johnatan56

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On what though?

They're not exactly cutting edge when it comes to features or implementations. I'd just think that for a company putting so much into R&D, they don't have much to show for it.

Their phones generally adopt old technology from other brands
Apple's SoC is probably the best mobile SoC on the market, so definitely not old tech.
 

Dolby

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I've seen that.

So I'm a Huawei fan and back in 2018 when I got my M20P, I was curious to see how the Kirin980 performed.

I'd read articles similar to these that boasted these massive benchmark figures and how superior the A12 was. In fact, some Apple sites were saying 24 months of any Android and really just implying this A12 was the fastest thing on the planet.

So I found an actual, real world video of the two chips (ie lay the phones next to each other and open apps) . Do you know that although the A12 was quicker in some tests, the Kirin was actually the more nippy processor in day to day tasks?

It opened Facebook, Netflix, Spotify etc quicker than the A12... As well internal apps like Dialer and Settings. It's Face ID was quicker every time time as well. And this was on stock mode (ie not 100% of the available performance)
 
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Dolby

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So I've seen the Kirin 980 was quicker... But the Apple doesn't hold a torch the battery life of flagship Android either. I think #1, #2 and #3 are all Androids.

When it comes to fast charging, Apple don't feature yet - I think they're stuck on 10w or something. Wireless charging they're stuck on 7.5w.

Camera is something else they're behind on. I think they're #5 spot,which isn't too bad I guess.

So it just seems like in a few key metrics, they're behind by a generation or three. They aren't cutting edge at all and rely on everyone else to do R&R
 

Johnatan56

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'



I've seen your previous posts and you're generally on point... But in this instance, perhaps you could give something more convincing than 'Because it is' ?
EDIT: I wrote because it is because you asked why, not how. /edit

The problem is that it's really difficult to compare between two different types of OS.

Battery life, you do know how Huawei does this, right? It basically doesn't let most background apps run, e.g. Check up on people having issues with telegram notifications if they don't use constantly, even if they set it to be excluded in settings.

Pretty much every other case of longer battery life is due to larger batteries.

IPhone 8 and newer have fast charging, pretty sure on that, do take into account they have smaller batteries so they don't need to up the wattage, it increases wear and tear on your battery. You'll notice that fast charging on Android will get slower and slower the higher the battery is charged.

Oppo had an interesting solution of two separate batteries to combat this. Look at I think tech altar on YouTube, he made an interesting comparison video on it. Do note he is biased though as previously worked there as an engineer.

Camera I wouldn't say they're really behind, it depends on personal taste nowadays for a lot of this stuff, software processing is what I assume you mean btw, not lens? Google is by far owning it, imho.


Can't really compare app opening times and stuff across devices as they are all different, face Id would definitely be a case of security vs user experience, since you can influence on how strict the algorithm is and how fast it performs.

I am interested if you could link that video.
 
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Dolby

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The problem is that it's really difficult to compare between two different types of OS.

Battery life, you do know how Huawei does this, right? It basically doesn't let most background apps run, e.g. Check up on people having issues with telegram notifications if they don't use constantly, even if they set it to be excluded in settings.

Pretty much every other case of longer battery life is due to larger batteries.

IPhone 8 and newer have fast charging, pretty sure on that, do take into account they have smaller batteries so they don't need to up the wattage, it increases wear and tear on your battery. You'll notice that fast charging on Android will get slower and slower the higher the battery is charged.

Oppo had an interesting solution of two separate batteries to combat this. Look at I think tech altar on YouTube, he made an interesting comparison video on it. Do note he is biased though as previously worked there as an engineer.

Camera I wouldn't say they're really behind, it depends on personal taste nowadays for a lot of this stuff, software processing is what I assume you mean btw, not lens? Google is by far owning it, imho.


Can't really compare app opening times and stuff across devices as they are all different, face Id would definitely be a case of security vs user experience, since you can influence on how strict the algorithm is and how fast it performs.

I am interested if you could link that video.
I'm not specifically talking Huawei - pretty much most Android flagships outlast an iPhone. To me - as an end user - I don't care if they have a larger capacity battery or whether it's magic. I do care about being about the lengths between charging. Check this test (has nothing to do with the notifications you speak of - it's pure screen on time) >>>

I'm not really sure why Apple decide to use cheaper, low capacity batteries though :/

I guess you could call the iPhone 18w 'fast' ... (though still 55% less than the Huawei's). They're also certified by TÜV Rheinland - I think a first when it comes to a mobile phone battery ? Wireless charging is a full 100% slower than both the Huawei and the Samsung though. I honestly don't think you can even compare the battery / charging systems - streets apart in terms of everything.

The cameras is pretty much a guaranteed everywhere on the net as being inferior in many categories (though, they can't test night photography or wide angle or zoom because, well, the iPhone doesn't have them yet). It's not a bad camera - but most reviews / videos put the Androids ahead.

Yea I've heard the same thing with the A12 being limited ... so they create the lighting speed chip that is capable of destroying anything - then sit round a table say 'guys, let's LIMIT this and slow things down a notch or two. Though the same as the battery - as an end user, I care about the end result.

Here's the video :


Oh - and that's not running at the full performance either .....
 

Johnatan56

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I'm not specifically talking Huawei - pretty much most Android flagships outlast an iPhone. To me - as an end user - I don't care if they have a larger capacity battery or whether it's magic. I do care about being about the lengths between charging. Check this test (has nothing to do with the notifications you speak of - it's pure screen on time) >>>

I'm not really sure why Apple decide to use cheaper, low capacity batteries though :/

I guess you could call the iPhone 18w 'fast' ... (though still 55% less than the Huawei's). They're also certified by TÜV Rheinland - I think a first when it comes to a mobile phone battery ? Wireless charging is a full 100% slower than both the Huawei and the Samsung though. I honestly don't think you can even compare the battery / charging systems - streets apart in terms of everything.

The cameras is pretty much a guaranteed everywhere on the net as being inferior in many categories (though, they can't test night photography or wide angle or zoom because, well, the iPhone doesn't have them yet). It's not a bad camera - but most reviews / videos put the Androids ahead.

Yea I've heard the same thing with the A12 being limited ... so they create the lighting speed chip that is capable of destroying anything - then sit round a table say 'guys, let's LIMIT this and slow things down a notch or two. Though the same as the battery - as an end user, I care about the end result.

Here's the video :


Oh - and that's not running at the full performance either .....
That second video, clicked on it, e.g. the dial-er he says Huawei wins, and yet that's because the animation is different. Watch in 0.25x in regards to which actually responds faster.
Subway surfer he was faster clicking on the Huawei, plus the iPhone also connected to game center first.

And I'm pretty sure that I've said this before, Huawei loads lower textures for games, so smaller size and will load faster. Check their "cheating" benchmarks.

Your argument of larger batteries is dumb, I said the SoC is more power efficient, not that the phone had a longer battery life. Two completely different arguments.


And if you're comparing the Huawei to the iPhone XS: https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=9319&idPhone2=9635
The iPhone has:
A higher resolution (458ppi vs 398, so 15% more pixels on the iPhone)
A 120Hz display

The Huawei has:
a 30% bigger battery, and faster charging
Is half a year newer

Camera wise, P30 Pro has utra wide and the telephoto. In actual use, I think you will only use the ultra wide. For normal usage, both will be the same/matter of preference. I generally dislike a lot of Huawei cameras selfie blurs and brightening of images, but that's more a preference thing.

The actual SoC though, Apple's chip is still better. And note you can't really trust Huawei's basemark scores, they will be higher than they actually are as they cheat it.
 

Dolby

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So many excuses on the average battery ... :/

OK - try this older Huawei >>>>

Higher resolution 458ppi vs 538ppi (so, 17% more pixels on the M20P ... and they're launched weeks apart) - but I'm sure you'll think of another reason why you feel the iPhone battery is actually the best in these drain tests ? I guess with with 2 of 3 excuses nullified - best focus on the last one remaining excuse?

The thing is the camera is pretty much universally accepted as the best and the most flexible in almost every single review and DXOMark rating. My M20P is a 16mm / 27mm / 80mm / 130mm and 270mm ... and macro ... and night. Rumour has that you'll be receiving these on the next iPhone ...

So the A12 is faster - but then they limit it purposely so it's not it's not the fastest? And add animations to slow it down further? Whew ... ok :/ By the way, it's actually A12 is the champion at the benchmarks (and the reason why everyone thinks it's faster than anything out there) . However, in the real world where people phone / whatsapp / use apps, the P30P is nippier.

As said at the start, the Android flagships last longer, charge faster, are faster and have better cameras. People don't care why ... as an end user, they care about the final result.
 
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