Huge jump in South Africans looking to emigrate – and load shedding isn’t helping

pinball wizard

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#21
People leave - and yes people will leave because of loadshedding. People tend to see the worst possible outcome. Look at all those that fled before Nelson Mandela was released. All the horror stories going around about the bloodshed that was coming. There is good and bad in every country. And you either love this country enough to stay and try and do your bit to make it better, while hoping things will improve. Or you cut your losses and run.

Luckily we have the freedom to stay or go. It could have been worse - we may all have been told to get out. But there are enough people, on all sides, that want South African to be the amazing country it can be. And are willing to work together to see that it becomes that. We just have to get on the same page when it comes to certain issues - and with crises like these - I think we will get there.

Yes - I am an optimist. But I look at the people and I see that there are enough of us to make it work.
I know people outside of SA (and not on the African shithole continent) who are looking to immigrate here. These are qualified professional people. The grass is always greener (or not) somewhere else.
 

KT-B

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#22
PFP updated: PFPITD......Packing for Perth, in the dark!
Good luck - watch out for their spiders. I have a friend who moved there and she is happy. More or less. If you have kids - just remember the drug culture is very different. Educate them before you go.
 

KT-B

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#23
I mostly agree with you, but one of the things that we need to actively resist is the divisive political rhetoric. There are lots of people that just want to get on with their lives, but there are a number who are angry, and are being told who to be angry at (instead of the corrupt politicians who are really responsible for the mess), and that is worrying.
Yes this is a huge concern. This needs to be addressed urgently.

and you had to go and spoil it, just as I was agreeing with you.
I used to believe in lenience - compassion etc. Then I had kids. That changed me. I know for certain that if anyone harms one of my children - I will take them out (and not necessarily in a humane way). I do believe that people deserve a punishment that fits the crime. Some people are beyond saving. If you take away someone's right to life - then you should lose the same right. And yes - I do see the irony. In taking a life I will be forfeiting my own. I am ok with that.

I do not see why we should fund these people in prisons - these people who see no value in living/life. But this is really a derailment. Incidentally - motherhood also made me a fan of abortion. Some of the things that happen to unwanted children makes the act of abortion pale in comparison.
 

The Voice

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#24
As someone who has been an outsider looking in for almost 4 years now, I can honestly say it was the best decision the wife and I ever made. We still have a large number of friends and family in SA, and constantly hear how each day gets just that little bit tougher. And yes, not having power for most of the day makes things infinitely worse.

I live in a country where the electricity service I pay for is still on when I get home - always. Where the unemployment rate has now fallen to below 4%. Where I have "free", excellent healthcare. Where we feel SAFE. The list of benefits of living in the First World is, in fact, endless, and I guess you're all aware of them by now. But someday, it comes down to that one decision: do you stay, and hope and pray that things will get "better" (what defines better in SA these days? The lights staying on?), or do you go somewhere else where you no longer have to worry about any of that? It becomes quite a simple choice in the end.
 

Mephisto_Helix

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#25
My naivety got thrown out the window in my 20's ..... one thing growing up did was make me smell the coffee and see the BS for what it is. There is no more helping a black hole, just getting out and getting as many friends and family out as is possible while I'm at it
 
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backstreetboy

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#26
^^ Meh some of us can't go anywhere for various reasons so reading the same old negativity on this forum helps sweet blue buggerall.
 

Zoomzoom

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#27
Yes this is a huge concern. This needs to be addressed urgently.


I used to believe in lenience - compassion etc. Then I had kids. That changed me. I know for certain that if anyone harms one of my children - I will take them out (and not necessarily in a humane way). I do believe that people deserve a punishment that fits the crime. Some people are beyond saving. If you take away someone's right to life - then you should lose the same right. And yes - I do see the irony. In taking a life I will be forfeiting my own. I am ok with that.

I do not see why we should fund these people in prisons - these people who see no value in living/life. But this is really a derailment. Incidentally - motherhood also made me a fan of abortion. Some of the things that happen to unwanted children makes the act of abortion pale in comparison.
The problem with the death penalty is multi-faceted.

1. There is a difference between a personal desire to protect your family (good) and the State acting out of what is basically revenge not justice (no justice is actually served when the State kills, it simply satisfies the urge to hurt).

2. Violence begets violence, so that violence you want to protect your kids from, is more likely to happen in a state that kills people. Stats from the US show that violent crime and murder increase substantially in states that have the death penalty.

3. Harsh penalties for crime are not a deterrent. Murder rates do not go down when the penalty is death. Stealing does not go down when the penalty is having your hand chopped off. The threat of being stoned to death does not stop people from having extra-marital affairs. It just makes them more careful about being caught (at best) but seeing as how people commit crime because they believe they will get away with it, the actual deterrent is not what will happen when they are caught, but in making sure they believe they will be caught. That is to say you can threaten dire consequences till the cows come home, but if criminals think they won't be caught, it doesn't make any difference what you threaten them with. However it has been proven that active policing of small crimes creating the general belief that you can't get away with anything, has a profound effect on reducing violent crime.

4. The justice system is not perfect. In the US alone hundreds of innocent people are incarcerated for life and/or given the death penalty. This is not an acceptable risk if you have any value for real justice.

5. Someone has to do the actual killing and the psychological effects on everyone involved in ending a life are well documented. Again, it goes to what is justice. When all is said and done, is it right to permanently psychologically damage (with the related damage to their immediate and extended families) the people who have to carry out a death sentence, it is right to risk putting to death an innocent person, for what is proven to result in an increase in the very crime you are trying to prevent, just so you can have your need for vengeance satisfied?

Your natural protective instincts are not a good basis for determining justice. I am a mother too, and yes I would also kill to protect my child in the immediacy of a life or death situation, but I absolutely recognise the difference between protecting myself and my family in a particular situation and what is right for the State to do in the name of justice.
 

Moto Guzzi

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#28
Huge jump in South Africans looking to emigrate – and load shedding isn’t helping

A large number of South Africans are emigrating from the country as they seek opportunities abroad, leaving behind a country mired in unemployment, endless political wrangling, and corruption that has hampered economic growth.
The problem is these high level corrupt syndicates are now spreaded/spreading fast with digital all over the world, and these economical parasites are bancrupting the good and poor people as we speak.
 

The Voice

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#29
^^ Meh some of us can't go anywhere for various reasons so reading the same old negativity on this forum helps sweet blue buggerall.
And we feel for you, we really do. It's a **** position to be in.

But there are a number of people on the forum who CAN leave tomorrow if they wanted to, but choose not to. It's no surprise that things in SA are bad - it didn't happen overnight, either. It's been in steady decline over two decades now, and like frogs in warm water, they've been telling themselves that it isn't all that bad, that things could be worse, that they'll stick around until it really kicks off and make a choice then.

I was one of those frogs, too. I love South Africa, it's where I was born and raised. The weather is perfect, it's one of the most beautiful countries I've ever had the pleasure of being in, and the majority of people are good, decent human beings. But those are superficial factors - things that just tug on the heart strings, and make the warm (now hot) water bearable for just a little while longer. I realised, however, that at the current rate of decline, that the water would start boiling eventually, and I didn't want to be there when it did.

My question to everyone who can leave, but chooses not to is: what is your boiling point? What will finally push you over the edge so that you say "**** this, I'm off", pack all your things and go to where the grass most definitely IS greener? And is it wise to have that option and not use it now? Or are you still waiting for things to get better? Without a doubt, it's a gamble, and the odds aren't exactly stacked in your favour.
 

moklet

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#30
And we feel for you, we really do. It's a **** position to be in.

But there are a number of people on the forum who CAN leave tomorrow if they wanted to, but choose not to. It's no surprise that things in SA are bad - it didn't happen overnight, either. It's been in steady decline over two decades now, and like frogs in warm water, they've been telling themselves that it isn't all that bad, that things could be worse, that they'll stick around until it really kicks off and make a choice then.

I was one of those frogs, too. I love South Africa, it's where I was born and raised. The weather is perfect, it's one of the most beautiful countries I've ever had the pleasure of being in, and the majority of people are good, decent human beings. But those are superficial factors - things that just tug on the heart strings, and make the warm (now hot) water bearable for just a little while longer. I realised, however, that at the current rate of decline, that the water would start boiling eventually, and I didn't want to be there when it did.

My question to everyone who can leave, but chooses not to is: what is your boiling point? What will finally push you over the edge so that you say "**** this, I'm off", pack all your things and go to where the grass most definitely IS greener? And is it wise to have that option and not use it now? Or are you still waiting for things to get better? Without a doubt, it's a gamble, and the odds aren't exactly stacked in your favour.
Yes there might be time I say no more, but to be honest I have not thought about that. If it happens it happens and I will feel sad to leave South Africa. Currently I won't have the same lifestyle overseas as I have here, and the grass is greener on the other side as it probably has some different $h!t on it. (Took me some time to add the word s h i t here as it was * out). Hey MyBB don't be so prude
 

Dave

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#31
:thumbsup: I can leave anytime (Have dual nationality as does my daughter, except my wife, It shouldn't be to difficult to get her into Europe)
I wouldn’t be so complacent, it’s got steadily harder in the last decade or so and is only going to get harder.

You might want to start doing some research on what’s needed (and it’s already likely to be a bit more than “shouldn’t be too difficult).
 

moklet

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#32
I wouldn’t be so complacent, it’s got steadily harder in the last decade or so and is only going to get harder.

You might want to start doing some research on what’s needed (and it’s already likely to be a bit more than “shouldn’t be too difficult).
Well maybe family ties daughter being there, being married to a European citizen for 20 years (so no fake marriage). I know of people with less credentials or rights having permanent residence in the EU. One thing she has 10 year Visa for both EU and US so plenty of time to sort things out
 

Dave

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#33
Well maybe family ties daughter being there, being married to a European citizen for 20 years (so no fake marriage). I know of people with less credentials or rights having permanent residence in the EU. One thing she has 10 year Visa for both EU and US so plenty of time to sort things out
All I’m saying is maybe start doing some homework as to what’s needed, having a visitors visa is no indication that a residence visa would follow.

The financial requirements for spouse visas have gone from virtually nothing to quite substantial since the turn of the century and many European countries are likely to bring in even more restrictions.
 

maumau

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#34
Those of you who have a choice but decide to stay - do you have small children? Because that would be the clincher for me.
 

pinball wizard

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#36
Those of you who have a choice but decide to stay - do you have small children? Because that would be the clincher for me.
That would be me.

Unfortunately, my peanut is 4, but due to the divorce, if I and my 13 year old left, the peanut would stay here with her mom. That's a huge factor in me deciding to stay even though I have options.
 

Brenden_E

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#38
That would be me.

Unfortunately, my peanut is 4, but due to the divorce, if I and my 13 year old left, the peanut would stay here with her mom. That's a huge factor in me deciding to stay even though I have options.
As long as you remember most options have an expiry date. Don't get caught with your pants down if things decide to catch fire.
 
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#39
Will be leaving in the second half of this year.

My spiritual/ancestral home has been calling for a while now...it's time to make the leap.
 
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