Huge jump in South Africans looking to emigrate – and load shedding isn’t helping

moklet

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All I’m saying is maybe start doing some homework as to what’s needed, having a visitors visa is no indication that a residence visa would follow.

The financial requirements for spouse visas have gone from virtually nothing to quite substantial since the turn of the century and many European countries are likely to bring in even more restrictions.
In some European countries , residency can be bought at the right investment, as it is she spends more time in europe as I do currently anyway
 

Dave

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In some European countries , residency can be bought at the right investment, as it is she spends more time in europe as I do currently anyway
If you’ve got the kind of money needed for financial settlement visas I don’t think you will have any problems with the financial requirements of a spouse visa, you can probably be one of the few not to worry about doing anything before leaving.
 

Milano

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Anyone sitting with dual citizenship is sitting pretty. Then there are people who literally cannot leave due to age or ill-health or other literally impassable obstacles. None of these people necessarily represent those who are positive about SA.

A more interesting stat would be the number of people who have only SA citizenship, were offered a job with equal or better pay overseas but turned it down because they love SA too much and are positive about SA's long term future.
 

VikashLurker

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These sort of topics tend to generate the most interest/hits, so it must be good for advertising I guess. Same can be said for all the doom and gloom in the news papers.

But the truth of the matter, is there is allot going on right now that makes it gloomy. With that said, its also not Armageddon like some make it out to be. Well that's in my opinion at least.

However, I say this sitting outside of the country looking in. I have the luxury of taking a more pragmatic view on things. I did not feel that way 2 years ago, and hence I felt I had to do something about it.

I feel those who have dual citizenship, have a backup plan or have already emigrated are more pragmatic about things. Oh it will blow over, the country will recover from this etc. Of course its not a guarantee, but its nice to be positive about the country, that we love. When the poo hits the fan, it doesn't have such a detrimental impact to this bunch of folks. You either outside of the country, or you get on a flight and you out.

Then there are those who are hot under collar, see the issues on hand and know that something needs to be done. A backup plan if you like. Those who can and do make a plan to leave, great.

There are however a great bunch of folks, who see things as they are. And know there is absolutely nothing that they can do to get out. Zero back up plan. Parents who don't want to lose their kids, or being over the age limit to be considered for visas, family commitments etc.
The constant hammering of the doom and gloom, is just depressing. You have no other option but to wait it out and hope for the best.

What really irks me is folks who have emigrated yet feel the urge to feed the frenzy and almost point and laugh. The I told you so bunch. Whats the point? You made your choices, be happy and move on.

I sit outside the situation but I still have family and friends in SA and still feel the close bond to the country of my birth. I truly HOPE/WANT things to turn around for the best.
 

Milano

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Have not noticed many that point and laugh from abroad. Although I have noticed that some and especially those in government are not fond of those who 'bad mouth' SA after leaving.

Whether it is right or wrong to do so, I can certainly understand their willingness to do so. Many who left and continue to leave their country of birth do so with a heavy heart.

Yes there is crime, there is state capture and dozens of other problems, but for many the political hostility towards their skin colour became too old and tiresome.

You can be as positive as you like, you can attempt to solve problems but you cannot change the colour of your skin.
 

Stefanmuller

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I can leave anytime (Have dual nationality as does my daughter, except my wife, It shouldn't be to difficult to get her into Europe) But SA is still my country of birth I have lived here for 70% of my life not something I am just willing to leave behind. So I am staying and sticking it out
Exactly, because you can leave as soon as the shite hits the fan. Not everyone is so lucky to have that trump card in his deck, just sitting there to be used. Others have to secure that option by either getting a job and working abroad or like myself, obtaining permanent residency status elsewhere. Either way both requires you to leave the country now, even if only temporarily but as it is a massive process and move it basically comes down to emigration.
 

Stefanmuller

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I know people outside of SA (and not on the African shithole continent) who are looking to immigrate here. These are qualified professional people. The grass is always greener (or not) somewhere else.
I can see why. SA is still good if you have money, and lots of it. Most well off over 50's who made their money abroad are so mich wealthier in SA thanks to the weak ZAR. Money can make most of the problems go away, barring loadshedding perhaps. Crime? Money buys you a house in a security estate in a safe neighbourhood. Schooling system sucks? Money sends your child to a good private school. Crap medical system? Get a good medical aid and pay the rest cash. Your daily living costs are cheap by European standards, including property.

If the shyte hits the fan, you just hop back to wherever you came from.

The problem is the 25-30something middle aged South Africans. Most have a OK job but the future is looking bleak, especially for their children who has their whole life ahead of them, only hitting the job market in 15 or more years. They are the ones leaving and with good reason.
 

KT-B

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The problem with the death penalty is multi-faceted.

1. There is a difference between a personal desire to protect your family (good) and the State acting out of what is basically revenge not justice (no justice is actually served when the State kills, it simply satisfies the urge to hurt).

2. Violence begets violence, so that violence you want to protect your kids from, is more likely to happen in a state that kills people. Stats from the US show that violent crime and murder increase substantially in states that have the death penalty.

3. Harsh penalties for crime are not a deterrent. Murder rates do not go down when the penalty is death. Stealing does not go down when the penalty is having your hand chopped off. The threat of being stoned to death does not stop people from having extra-marital affairs. It just makes them more careful about being caught (at best) but seeing as how people commit crime because they believe they will get away with it, the actual deterrent is not what will happen when they are caught, but in making sure they believe they will be caught. That is to say you can threaten dire consequences till the cows come home, but if criminals think they won't be caught, it doesn't make any difference what you threaten them with. However it has been proven that active policing of small crimes creating the general belief that you can't get away with anything, has a profound effect on reducing violent crime.

4. The justice system is not perfect. In the US alone hundreds of innocent people are incarcerated for life and/or given the death penalty. This is not an acceptable risk if you have any value for real justice.

5. Someone has to do the actual killing and the psychological effects on everyone involved in ending a life are well documented. Again, it goes to what is justice. When all is said and done, is it right to permanently psychologically damage (with the related damage to their immediate and extended families) the people who have to carry out a death sentence, it is right to risk putting to death an innocent person, for what is proven to result in an increase in the very crime you are trying to prevent, just so you can have your need for vengeance satisfied?

Your natural protective instincts are not a good basis for determining justice. I am a mother too, and yes I would also kill to protect my child in the immediacy of a life or death situation, but I absolutely recognise the difference between protecting myself and my family in a particular situation and what is right for the State to do in the name of justice.
You make a lot of good points there - but our existing system doesn't work. What fear is there if when you are caught, the docket goes missing, witnesses do not show up for court dates, you get released on a presidential special day. Will answer in more detail - being called to watch tv now.
 

Sollie

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That would be me.

Unfortunately, my peanut is 4, but due to the divorce, if I and my 13 year old left, the peanut would stay here with her mom. That's a huge factor in me deciding to stay even though I have options.
Was more or less my situation. I had excellent offers, good prospects otherwise. But by the time they were grown up, I was past my best-by date. Looking back, I realize it was perhaps the wrong decision. I should have offed, created something on the other side for my kids.

Don't make the same mistake.
 

Zoomzoom

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You make a lot of good points there - but our existing system doesn't work. What fear is there if when you are caught, the docket goes missing, witnesses do not show up for court dates, you get released on a presidential special day. Will answer in more detail - being called to watch tv now.
This applies regardless of what the penalty is. What use is increasing the punishment, if no-one is actually likely to ever be punished?

What you really want and need is EFFECTIVE policing.
 
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