'Hundreds' of young trans people seeking help to return to original sex

[Nick333]

No. I disagree entirely with the concept that parents can change their kids gender. If someone wants to change their gender, this should only happen when they are 18+.

But yeah, lets just strawman and gaslight!

Fair enough, but I would argue that accepting and protecting in law someone's decision to "be" something other than their biological gender is as crazy and negligent as doing the same for someone's decision to "be" Napoleon. I would argue that this tendency to pander to the mentally disturbed leads directly to unstable parents pandering to childish delusions which is abuse.

I mean all you have to do is prove that there are no biological differences between males and females and that the two traditional genders don't reflect those differences reasonably accurately in the vast majority of individuals.

Simple as that.

 

[buka001]

Well, I think that argument is pretty simple. It goes like: encouraging children who display gender confusion to identify as other than their biological sex, or treating them with hormones is child abuse. You could refute that argument by proving that no one does or simply by denying that it's abuse. In other words prove that it doesn't happen or own the position that it's OK.

Current legislation in the UK and USA have a minimum age of 16 for hormone treatment and 18 for surgery.

 

[Rouxenator]

Might not sit well with most, but you're not trans, you're just bi like me.

 

[rietrot]

Current legislation in the UK and USA have a minimum age of 16 for hormone treatment and 18 for surgery.

16 is probably still way to young.

The problem is education. Indoctrinating young kids from a early age that they can choose their gender as if it is something different from their biological sex, but it's not really a choice because #bornthatway.

 

[Nick333]

Current legislation in the UK and USA have a minimum age of 16 for hormone treatment and 18 for surgery.

Well that's good for a given amount of good. I would prefer that it wasn't legal for medical professionals to prescribe and administer treatments that alter the normal levels of hormones in physically healthy individuals. It's just fccking weird that we do.

"Hi, I'm a physical healthy, normal, male human being, but I feel like I should have tits and a vaginas".

Doctor: "Well what we can do about that it is up your levels of hormones that females tend to produce more of naturally, in the hopes that your naturally occurring muscle and bond tissue will deteriorate to something closer to a woman's and you well developed more fatty deposits in your hips, thighs, and chest areas. Cut off your penis and fashion something that appears something like, but doesn't function like or serve the same purposes as a vaginas, and stick silicon bags in your chest. Then what you can do is grow your hair, dress in feminine attire, speak in with a higher pitch, slather on make up and hope like you don't look like a repulsive parody of a woman."

"Thanks, doc. That sounds awesome."

 

[Nick333]

16 is probably still way to young.

The problem is education. Indoctrinating young kids from a early age that they can choose their gender as if it is something different from their biological sex, but it's not really a choice because #bornthatway.

Any age is to young. If someone feels like they should be destroying themselves physically, perhaps an argument could be made for allowing them, but we certainly shouldn't be aiding and abetting them.

 

[buka001]

Any age is to young. If someone feels like they should be destroying themselves physically, perhaps an argument could be made for allowing them, but we certainly shouldn't be aiding and abetting them.

Hence, why I say 18.

People older than 18 can drink their liver into oblivion legally.

 

[Nick333]

Hence, why I say 18.

People older than 18 can drink their liver into oblivion legally.

Keywords being "they can". Should we allow doctors to prescribe alcohol to alcoholics and pour them drinks. A major flaw with that analogy is that the majority of people use alcohol in amounts that don't irreparably damage their livers, whereas a healthy male taking estrogen is always harmful to his body.

 

[rietrot]

Any age is to young. If someone feels like they should be destroying themselves physically, perhaps an argument could be made for allowing them, but we certainly shouldn't be aiding and abetting them.

Ja. I'm not sure I should draw a line between what is an acceptable amount of self mutilation. If the patient is old enough to understand what it is doing. And the doctor value money above morals then it's not my place to get in the way.

 

[buka001]

Keywords being "they can". Should we allow doctors to prescribe alcohol to alcoholics and pour them drinks. A major flaw with that analogy is that the majority of people use alcohol in amounts that don't irreparably damage their livers, whereas a healthy male taking estrogen is always harmful to his body.

True, but if it is their choice to go to the doctor and ask for this, then it is their own responsibility. The consequences of their actions are their own.

Freedom of choice.

 

[Eniigma]

Exempli Gratia:

"Jennifer" Pritzker.
Lena and Lilli Wachowski.
Caitlin Jenner.
Vivienne Ming.
Martine Rothblatt.
Jakkaphong Jakrajutatip.
Andrea Breanna.
Michelle Bettencourt.

Mostly Conservative, all male, all wealthy.
The homophobic part comes from many of them trying to trans their own gay away.

A little late on the reply. Appologies.
There are only 2 things I agree with on this, they're wealth and male.
You're completely wrong on the mostly conservative bit. The Wachowski brothers for example, were raised by a "hardcore atheist" father and an "ex-Catholic turned Shamanist" mother, which is hardly a poster child for conservatism.

And I don't follow the homophobic part, the fact they cut, or want to cut their dicks off so they can get guys kinda proves that incorrect. If you're saying the want to change to become woman because they don't want to admit they're gay, well that's a whole other kind of wacked and really they need pro

I'd only heard of 2 of those on the list, and only that Jenner dude, was the only one I knew was transgender. Seeing the Wachowski brothers there suddenly made a lot of things clearer.

Honestly I see it more as media pushing it, magazines and **** pushing it for clicks. Trying to seem hip and woke, etc, all for the clicks and profit.
And media companies trying to normalise it through casting and character roles

 

[Nick333]

True, but if it is their choice to go to the doctor and ask for this, then it is their own responsibility. The consequences of their actions are their own.

Freedom of choice.

Fine. My point is that it's bodily mutilation because of delusional thinking. Why should we as a society pander,to people with mental illness and even glorify them? It's very much like encouraging and aiding an alcoholic to drink himself into an ICU, to expand on your analogy.

 

[Cray]

Fine. My point is that it's bodily mutilation because of delusional thinking. Why should we as a society pander,to people with mental illness and even glorify them? It's very much like encouraging and aiding an alcoholic to drink himself into an ICU, to expand on your analogy.

Does that body mutilation actually cause physical harm though....? Sure the surgeries themselves carry risks but people go through all sorts of medically unnecessary surgeries all the time (breast implants, rhinoplasties, plastic surgery etc) because they want to change their appearance, why is this any different?

Is a woman who wants bigger boobs also delusional?

 

[The Voice]

Does that body mutilation actually cause physical harm though....? Sure the surgeries themselves carry risks but people go through all sorts of medically unnecessary surgeries all the time (breast implants, rhinoplasties, plastic surgery etc) because they want to change their appearance, why is this any different?

Is a woman who wants bigger boobs also delusional?

They aren't associated with a disproportionately high suicide rate, though.

 

[Nick333]

Does that body mutilation actually cause physical harm though....? Sure the surgeries themselves carry risks but people go through all sorts of medically unnecessary surgeries all the time (breast implants, rhinoplasties, plastic surgery etc) because they want to change their appearance, why is this any different?

Is a woman who wants bigger boobs also delusional?

Well, yes I think removing ones healthy sex organs is the definition of harm, but I've acknowledged that that is a matter of personal choice. It's not just cosmetic mutilation though. The male body does not do well if you pump it full of estrogen though. Muscle (including the heart) and bone tissue begins to deteriorate which is also the definition of harm.

But anyway, in that I've acknowledged that people should probably be free to mutilate themselves for whatever reasons(if we decide to be that callous and uncaring for the sake of freedom) you've completely side stepped my stated point. Why should we pander to, encourage and even glorify this delusional behaviour?

 

[Nick333]

They aren't associated with a disproportionately high suicide rate, though.

Now someone will tell you that the transgender suicide rate is linked to discrimination.

 

[Lupus]

There should be extensive psych evaluations, lots of prepping, lots of talking before gender reassignment surgery and it should only be from the age of 21. Otherwise you'll end up like this by the looks of it.

 

[Cray]

But anyway, in that I've acknowledged that people should probably be free to mutilate themselves for whatever reasons(if we decide to be that callous and uncaring for the sake of freedom) you've completely side stepped my stated point. Why should we pander to, encourage and even glorify this delusional behaviour?

Does society currently pander to them, really?

If a person feels they might be happier with the surgery why would we choose to discourage it? Not saying that all of them will be happier after but some clearly are? Perhaps there needs to be a more thorough psychological evaluation done before surgery is considered ...

 

[Packer]

Fair enough, but I would argue that accepting and protecting in law someone's decision to "be" something other than their biological gender is as crazy and negligent as doing the same for someone's decision to "be" Napoleon.

It’s SJW and identity politics. Only 1st world countries are stable enough to ensure the protection of SJW’s so this crap only occurs in 1st world countries.

 

[Cray]

Now someone will tell you that the transgender suicide rate is linked to discrimination.

Yeah, because transgender people never get physically attacked or get made to feel like freaks right?