'Hundreds' of young trans people seeking help to return to original sex

[buka001]

Oh yes, those paragons of scientific veracity and their *snigger "gospel".

But yet, I am told to accept an as fact, an opinion of one or two trans people, who are not medically qualified that there are hundreds of people considering de-transitioning and this is also qualified with the factual statement that there is no data to support this. in the same article.

 

[SlinkyMike]

Why on Earth not? Especially considering how the left attacks everyone else including those who are not left enough. Going after the left is basically just self-defense for anyone who isn't a leftist.

The fact is that the left is so loony these days there's little time or energy left to go after the right for their old chestnuts.

If that is your position then that's fine but clearly you are leaning hard right so then ti is false to call ones self a centrist / moderate.

Oh yes, those paragons of scientific veracity and their *snigger "gospel".

OK, look if you have published papers in psychiatric journals and your complaint is backed up by some sort of education then please enlighten us. I suspect your sniggering is unadulterated Dunning-Kruger though so I'll take it for what it is: ignorance.

 

[Nick333]

But yet, I am told to accept an as fact, an opinion of one or two trans people, who are not medically qualified that there are hundreds of people considering de-transitioning and this is also qualified with the factual statement that there is no data to support this. in the same article.

You're not being told to do anything. Don't be a drama queen.

Oh so now you're unhappy with anecdotal evidence? How do you think studies regarding peoples mental states are done? With mind reading machines?

 

[Emjay]

Any age is to young. If someone feels like they should be destroying themselves physically, perhaps an argument could be made for allowing them, but we certainly shouldn't be aiding and abetting them.

Imagine. In a socialized healthcare scenario, people like you and me would be paying for that sort of treatment. The amount of medical work that needs to be done to "pass" is pretty hefty. And the same time, statistically, their suicide rates remain very high (40%) even after fully transitioning. Transgender medicine at the moment is a sham, and is driven by one factor: attempt to de-stigmatize the condition to reduce the mental problems that come along with being body/gender dysmorphic.

 

[SoldierMan]

No. The DSM is the "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders" it is the gospel wrt psychiatry.

The DSM-5 (i.e.: 5th edition) specifically employs the word "dysphoria" in place of "disorder" as the psychiatric community does not consider transgendered people "disordered" ...you can disagree with that if you like, I am simply pointing out where the medical community stands on this.

Yes I know what it is, I ignored your question and simply stated that transgenderism should not be something you try and achieve rather it should be treated.

Ah yes the world of psychiatry, the profession where "politics" and the latest fad/trend never influences the current standards right.......

 

[buka001]

Imagine. In a socialized healthcare scenario, people like you and me would be paying for that sort of treatment. The amount of medical work that needs to be done to "pass" is pretty hefty. And the same time, statistically, their suicide rates remain very high (40%) even after fully transitioning.

Yes because the evidence illustrates that the discrimination, bullying and being shunned by their families are the major contributing factors.

I wonder what would happen if the stigma against trans people was reduced and they were accepted in society more ...

Studies have shown that increasing openess and acceptance of gay rights (same sex marriages in particular) resulted in reduced suicide rates amongst gay youth.

Legalization of same-sex marriage linked to reduction of suicide attempts among high school students

Allowing same-sex marriage at state level reduced suicide attempts by 134,000 per year, BSPH researchers estimate

hub.jhu.edu

 

[Emjay]

Yes because the evidence illustrates that the discrimination, bullying and being shunned by their families are the major contributing factors.

I wonder what would happen if the stigma against trans people was reduced and they were accepted in society more ...

Studies have shown that increasing openess and acceptance of gay rights (same sex marriages in particular) resulted in reduced suicide rates amongst gay youth.

Legalization of same-sex marriage linked to reduction of suicide attempts among high school students

Allowing same-sex marriage at state level reduced suicide attempts by 134,000 per year, BSPH researchers estimate

hub.jhu.edu

You are conflating being homosexual with being transgender. These two things are VERY different.

The Transgender Movement and Bad Stats: A Debunking Compilation

It has come to our attention, that, scattered across half a dozen posts, is debunking of a variety of statistics associated with the…

medium.com

Seems even my own stats have been wrong, and we are not really sure as to what the suicidal rates are, or what is driving those rates.

@Cray, since you raised violence against transgender people as an issue, you should take a look at this:

We’ll take 1.95 million Americans. If we figure how many trans people are victims of murder a year as a percentage, that figure is 0.0013%. Per capita,that’s a ratio of 1.3 trans people murdered per 100,000. The murder rate of women in the US is triple that, and of men, quadruple. Even with an extremely conservative estimate of 0.1% of the US population (or 325,000 trans people), we have a murder rate of 8.3 per 100,000. The murder rate of Chicago is twice that conservative figure at 16.02 people murdered per 100,000. In terms of gross numbers — that’s 11,535 murders of male Americans, and 3,292 murders of female Americans in 2017. 27 is small potatoes. That is not a murder epidemic — in fact it’s a murder rate per capita lower than Canada. It certainly doesn’t mean that there’s an ‘epidemic of transphobic violence’.

 

[Eniigma]

No. The DSM is the "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders" it is the gospel wrt psychiatry.

The DSM-5 (i.e.: 5th edition) specifically employs the word "dysphoria" in place of "disorder" as the psychiatric community does not consider transgendered people "disordered" ...you can disagree with that if you like, I am simply pointing out where the medical community stands on this.

You mean the same people that now consider video game playing as a disorder?
But believing that some how a diety/evolution/nature/flying spaghetti monster/whatever your belief is some how got it wrong and put female you in a man's body is not?

 

[SlinkyMike]

You mean the same people that now consider video game playing as a disorder?
But believing that some how a diety/evolution/nature/flying spaghetti monster/whatever your belief is some how got it wrong and put female you in a man's body is not?

Clearly you have ever met a video game addict. That schit ruins lives. You should google on the topic a bit if it's in your interest area, it's definitely as damaging as other addictions.

I don't remember making a call to the supernatural regarding gender dysphoria, how did you arrive at this?

 

[buka001]

You are conflating being homosexual with being transgender. These two things are VERY different.

The Transgender Movement and Bad Stats: A Debunking Compilation

It has come to our attention, that, scattered across half a dozen posts, is debunking of a variety of statistics associated with the…

medium.com

Seems even my own stats have been wrong, and we are not really sure as to what the suicidal rates are, or what is driving those rates.

@Cray, since you raised violence against transgender people as an issue, you should take a look at this:

Noooo.

Strawman.

...

I am illustrating how the wider acceptance of homosexuality, led to reduced stigma and homosexual people felt far more comfortable in their own skin and this led to reduced suicide rates amongst homosexual people.

...

Now in a similar way, that Trans people are being widely discriminated against, bullied and shunned. and this has been demonstrated to be a contributing factor to their suicide. So , similar to how society grew its acceptance of gay people and this helped reduce suicides, if society shows greater acceptance for trans people, this can help reduce the suicide rates amongst trans people.

 

[Emjay]

If that is your position, then that's fine. Clearly you are leaning hard right, so then it is false to call oneself a centrist / moderate.

There you go SlinkyMike. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to return the favour.

 

[Emjay]

Noooo.

Strawman.

...

I am illustrating how the wider acceptance of homosexuality, led to reduced stigma and homosexual people felt far more comfortable in their own skin.

...

Now in a similar way, that Trans people are being widely discriminated against, bullied and shunned. and this has been demonstrated to be a contributing factor to their suicide. So , similar to how society grew its acceptance of gay people and this helped reduce suicides, if society shows greater acceptance for trans people, this can help reduce the suicide rates amongst trans people.

Your argument is a strawman. We don't know what the underlying cause of transgenderisim is. I am firmly in the mental illness camp, because there has been zero evidence suggesting it is not.

 

[buka001]

Your argument is a strawman. We don't know what the underlying cause of transgenderisim is. I am firmly in the mental illness camp, because there has been zero evidence suggesting it is not.

Except psychologists who have carried out studies to demonstrate that it is not the case.

The WHO have also declared that it is not a mental illness.

 

[SlinkyMike]

Yes I know what it is, I ignored your question and simply stated that transgenderism should not be something you try and achieve rather it should be treated.

Ah yes the world of psychiatry, the profession where "politics" and the latest fad/trend never influences the current standards right.......

See this is the issue with trying to debate things with people like you: your whole worldview conforms to a set of alternate facts. So we can't discuss the DSM without having to debate the scientific method and all manner of philosophical babble and in my experience doing that is especially frustrating when we eventually arrive at clarity that you don't even understand the topic at a level apropos to the claims you are making.

It's pigeon chess basically.

 

[Eniigma]

Imagine. In a socialized healthcare scenario, people like you and me would be paying for that sort of treatment. The amount of medical work that needs to be done to "pass" is pretty hefty. And the same time, statistically, their suicide rates remain very high (40%) even after fully transitioning. Transgender medicine at the moment is a sham, and is driven by one factor: attempt to de-stigmatize the condition to reduce the mental problems that come along with being body/gender dysmorphic.

That's not a big stretch at all.

Elizabath Warren as already said that prisons should be entitled to state(tax payer) funded gender change surgery.

 

[Emjay]

Except psychologists who have carried out studies to demonstrate that it is not the case.

The WHO have also declared that it is not a mental illness.

We have debated this a million times on these very forums across about 5 threads. The WHO declassified transgenderisim as a mental disorder due to political pressure and lobbying. There was zero scientific basis in their decision to do so.

 

[SlinkyMike]

There you go SlinkyMike. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to return the favour.

Obtuse as usual, what does this even mean??

Except psychologists who have carried out studies to demonstrate that it is not the case.

The WHO have also declared that it is not a mental illness.

Yes but science is a liberal conspiracy, idiot.

/s

 

[Emjay]

Obtuse as usual, what does this even mean??

And you are not the brightest crayon in the box.

 

[buka001]

We have debated this a million times on these very forums across about 5 threads. The WHO declassified transgenderisim as a mental disorder due to political pressure and lobbying. There was zero scientific basis in their decision to do so.

Yet there are studies done by psychologists that demonstrate otherwise.

Yet, everyone here is happy to accept an opinion of a person who claims, without data, that there are hundreds of people looking to de-transition?

Double standards?

 

[Emjay]

Yet there are studies done by psychologists that demonstrate otherwise.

Yet, everyone here is happy to accept an opinion of a person who claims, without data, that there are hundreds of people looking to de-transition?

Double standards?

I am not commenting on the issue around the stats of de-transitioning. I would love you to show me where I am pushing this opinion. I am saying that the state of transgender medicine is in a massive mess because it has become a social issue, and not a medical/science one. The very fact that the WHO buckled to lobbying pressure is alarming. The protocols for treatment were severely altered after the WHO made that declassification.

I just linked a long article questioning the rationale behind those studies and you wrote it off as a strawman. *sigh* They are deeply flawed. Yet, you want to come here and link a study done on homosexuality and try apply that to the current debate.

We have come to accept that being homosexual is not a choice and there are strong genetic and hormonal links to homosexuality. Yet, for transgenderisim, we want to alter an entire person's body because that person's brain thinks the body should be something else. These treatments are crippingly expensive, don't guarantee they no longer live in mental anguish, and are permanent.

Stop being so defensive and see the bigger picture.