'Hundreds' of young trans people seeking help to return to original sex

[SoldierMan]

See this is the issue with trying to debate things with people like you: your whole worldview conforms to a set of alternate facts. So we can't discuss the DSM without having to debate the scientific method and all manner of philosophical babble and in my experience doing that is especially frustrating when we eventually arrive at clarity that you don't even understand the topic at a level apropos to the claims you are making.

It's pigeon chess basically.

LOL The only problem with your theory is that the approach to these various mental disorders HAS CHANGED OVER TIME DRAMATICALLY, and continues to change. Even the so-called experts don't know what is up and what is down, and are influenced by SOCIETY at large.

Who knows what disorder they will re-categorise next. And if you try and tell me that the transgender disorder being re-categorised isn't down to anything but the push by liberals in society than you are just fooling yourself.

 

[Emjay]

I am just raising this here again.

This study:

Parent reports of adolescents and young adults perceived to show signs of a rapid onset of gender dysphoria

Purpose In on-line forums, parents have reported that their children seemed to experience a sudden or rapid onset of gender dysphoria, appearing for the first time during puberty or even after its completion. Parents describe that the onset of gender dysphoria seemed to occur in the context of...

journals.plos.org

Was pulled because:

In her letter, Dean Marcus cites fears that “conclusions of the study could be used to discredit the efforts to support transgender youth and invalidate perspectives of members of the transgender community” (my italics). Why the concerns of these unidentified individuals should be accorded weight in the evaluation of an academic work is left unexplained.

As a Former Dean of Harvard Medical School, I Question Brown’s Failure to Defend Lisa Littman

This week’s controversy surrounding an academic paper on gender dysphoria published by Brown University assistant professor Lisa Littman—brought on by the post-publication questioning of Dr Littman’s scholarship by both the journal that published it, PLOS One, and Brown’s own School of Public...

quillette.com

No one is saying that improving acceptance and tolerance towards people who suffer from this is wrong. Creating tolerance is sure something that is in dire need across the entirety of our society. However, approaching this issue with only that goal in mind is counter productive, and (imo) extremely harmful.

 

[buka001]

I am not commenting on the issue around the stats of de-transitioning. I would love you to show me where I am pushing this opinion. I am saying that the state of transgender medicine is in a massive mess because it has become a social issue, and not a medical/science one. The very fact that the WHO buckled to lobbying pressure is alarming. The protocols for treatment were severely altered after the WHO made that declassification.

I just linked a long article questioning the rationale behind those studies and you wrote it off as a strawman. *sigh* They are deeply flawed. Yet, you want to come here and link a study done on homosexuality and try apply that to the current debate.

We have come to accept that being homosexual is not a choice and there are strong genetic and hormonal links to homosexuality. Yet, for transgenderisim, we want to alter an entire person's body because that person's brain thinks the body should be something else. These treatments are crippingly expensive, don't guarantee they no longer live in mental anguish, and are permanent.

Stop being so defensive and see the bigger picture.

I get that.

However, the WHO only declassified homosexuality as a ICD-9 disorder in 1990. Did they also cave into pressure back then or had society and its understanding of the underlying factors matured then?

If we had this forum around back then, we would be having the same argument as we are having now, about whether homosexuality is a mental illness.

There is a parallel in how society treated homosexuals historically and classified them, to how society treats transgender people now.

 

[Nick333]

If that is your position then that's fine but clearly you are leaning hard right so then ti is false to call ones self a centrist / moderate.

Clearly. Because, disagreeing with lefties makes you right, right?

OK, look if you have published papers in psychiatric journals and your complaint is backed up by some sort of education then please enlighten us. I suspect your sniggering is unadulterated Dunning-Kruger though so I'll take it for what it is: ignorance.

Nice appeal to authority, except you're choosing the wrong discipline to try that shyt with. Psychiatry is hardly a hard science and psychology is anything but. At best you're talking about informed opinion at worst applied quackery. You don't actually need a doctorate to spot BS either way.

 

[SlinkyMike]

Yes I know what it is, I ignored your question and simply stated that transgenderism should not be something you try and achieve rather it should be treated.

Ah yes the world of psychiatry, the profession where "politics" and the latest fad/trend never influences the current standards right.......

Like I said. Pigeon Chess.

And you are not the brightest crayon in the box.

I think that the point at which you can only furnish personal insults is usually the point at which consensus dictates that the argument has been lost. So here we are then.

 

[Emjay]

I think that the point at which you can only furnish personal insults is usually the point at which consensus dictates that the argument has been lost. So here we are then.

You may dispense your leftist tears in my tumbler.



I am not making any argument. I was doing exactly what you did to me. Not my fault if you cannot follow along. There is nothing to win or lose at this point.

 

[SoldierMan]

Like I said. Pigeon Chess.

I see you chose to ignore my other post. Telling.

So when you have no answer you revert to "pigeon chess". Got it!

 

[The Voice]

That's not a big stretch at all.

Elizabath Warren as already said that prisons should be entitled to state(tax payer) funded gender change surgery.

It's already paid for by the NHS.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

I get that.

However, the WHO only declassified homosexuality as a ICD-9 disorder in 1990. Did they also cave into pressure back then or had society and its understanding of the underlying factors matured then?

If we had this forum around back then, we would be having the same argument as we are having now, about whether homosexuality is a mental illness.

There is a parallel in how society treated homosexuals historically and classified them, to how society treats transgender people now.

You have no data to back up your assertion. Therefore your claims are baseless and can be ignored.

 

[SlinkyMike]

You may dispense your leftist tears in my tumbler.

View attachment 725046

I am not making any argument. I was doing exactly what you did to me. Not my fault if you cannot follow along. There is nothing to win or lose at this point.

Just quality discourse all the way down with you lot really isn't it? WTF are you even on about?
You're right, I can't even recall what you commented on one of my posts for, you clearly have nothing to say ergo: there is no argument. I would have to agree.

I see you chose to ignore my other post. Telling.

So when you have no answer you revert to "pigeon chess". Got it!

Sorry, if I missed one - which post please?

Clearly. Because, disagreeing with lefties makes you right, right?

No, but only disagreeing with liberal politics is not centrist. Which is what I originally said. Are you concentrating son?

Nice appeal to authority, except you're choosing the wrong discipline to try that shyt with. Psychiatry is hardly a hard science and psychology is anything but. At best you're talking about informed opinion at worst applied quackery. You don't actually need a doctorate to spot BS either way.

Oh I'm aware and I agree on psychiatry wrt hard science. My point remains that you clearly do not know as much as established scholars on the topic, that is a fact not a logical fallacy.

 

[Emjay]

Just quality discourse all the way down with you lot really isn't it? WTF are you even on about?
You're right, I can't even recall what you commented on one of my posts for, you clearly have nothing to say ergo: there is no argument. I would have to agree.

So indignant. You don't deserve anything else as your engagement with those you deem to be on the "right" is no better.

 

[SoldierMan]

Just quality discourse all the way down with you lot really isn't it? WTF are you even on about?
You're right, I can't even recall what you commented on one of my posts for, you clearly have nothing to say ergo: there is no argument. I would have to agree.



Sorry, if I missed one - which post please?

Post 441.

 

[SlinkyMike]

So indignant. You don't deserve anything else as your engagement white those you deem to be on the "right" is no better.

Can you actually tell me what you are trying to address with me? Simple question. I'm asking because I cannot...

Post 441.

Thanks, apologies.

LOL The only problem with your theory is that the approach to these various mental disorders HAS CHANGED OVER TIME DRAMATICALLY, and continues to change. Even the so-called experts don't know what is up and what is down, and are influenced by SOCIETY at large.

As they should, I men new data mean we revise our findings right? Look, I agree that psychiatry isn't science but what I am saying...

Who knows what disorder they will re-categorise next. And if you try and tell me that the transgender disorder being re-categorised isn't down to anything but the push by liberals in society than you are just fooling yourself.

...it that it isn't just a free for all. That is a conspiracy theory and it is not accepted by the medical community. So have at it but realise you are surfing the lunatic fringe.

 

[Emjay]

Ah yes the world of psychiatry, the profession where "politics" and the latest fad/trend never influences the current standards right.......

Just point out the study I linked earlier.

 

[Pegasus]

Can you actually tell me what you are trying to address with me? Simple question. I'm asking because I cannot...

It is a conspiracy.

We're all trying to turn you into a moderate before it's too late for you.

Your parents felt that you needed an intervention. And that you need to enjoy life, its never been so good on this planet, and you're going to miss all of it.

 

[Nick333]

Yes because the evidence illustrates that the discrimination, bullying and being shunned by their families are the major contributing factors.

I wonder what would happen if the stigma against trans people was reduced and they were accepted in society more ...

Studies have shown that increasing openess and acceptance of gay rights (same sex marriages in particular) resulted in reduced suicide rates amongst gay youth.

Legalization of same-sex marriage linked to reduction of suicide attempts among high school students

Allowing same-sex marriage at state level reduced suicide attempts by 134,000 per year, BSPH researchers estimate

hub.jhu.edu

They are accepted in society more. How's it going?

 

[Nick333]

Obtuse as usual, what does this even mean??



Yes but science is a liberal conspiracy, idiot.

/s

Lol. "You're stupid because I don't understand you". Rich.

 

[Nick333]

Noooo.

Strawman.

...

I am illustrating how the wider acceptance of homosexuality, led to reduced stigma and homosexual people felt far more comfortable in their own skin and this led to reduced suicide rates amongst homosexual people.

...

Now in a similar way, that Trans people are being widely discriminated against, bullied and shunned. and this has been demonstrated to be a contributing factor to their suicide. So , similar to how society grew its acceptance of gay people and this helped reduce suicides, if society shows greater acceptance for trans people, this can help reduce the suicide rates amongst trans people.

You're really bad at identifying logical fallacies.

Pointing out that you're comparing unlike things is not creating a strawman.

BTW gay suicide rates were nothing like trans suicide rates. Nothing is like trans suicide rates.

 

[ShaunSA]

Lol. "You're stupid because I don't understand you". Rich.

He hasn't told you to shut up yet

 

[Nick333]

See this is the issue with trying to debate things with people like you: your whole worldview conforms to a set of alternate facts. So we can't discuss the DSM without having to debate the scientific method and all manner of philosophical babble and in my experience doing that is especially frustrating when we eventually arrive at clarity that you don't even understand the topic at a level apropos to the claims you are making.

It's pigeon chess basically.

Put it this way. If psychology is a science it's the most useless science ever. Over a hundred years as a serious discipline and it's still hit and miss as far as curing anyone.

Seriously though if you're going to start talking about psychological facts , as though it was a hard science, you're the problem.

Edit: actually the problem isn't so much alternative facts so much as it's that you lot don't know what a fact is. A DSM classification is very far from a fact. It's an opinion decided by committee.