Hunting : The right to hunt ?

[w1z4rd]

Nishano: Do you feel the same way about fishing as you do hunting, cause in essence, they are the same thing.

 

[satanboy]

 

[satanboy]

...

Things that stand out as reasons why we went hunting:

- it was a bonding experience;
- it was a learning experience;
- it provided some very decent meals.

....

So you find it impossible to achieve those things without killing?

 

[Arzy]

So you find it impossible to achieve those things without killing?

Now you're just trolling.

As I said in my original post, I haven't been hunting in quite some time, other activities have taken over.

Should the opportunity arise however I am not opposed to hunting however.

 

[Nishano]

@murraybiscuit
Thanks for the retort,

I chose the case of hunting as it has a seemingly enjoyable aspect to it and it is considered as a " sport ".
Be it blood lust or honorable , Im trying to understand the concept and willingness of a hunter and merely just the moral high ground on the practice.

It is interesting that you brought up Hunting being 'morally acceptable' when done for consumption, and by your logical progression,
I agree that it is a fairer , more so just way to treat an animal as apposed to the abattoir. ( still seemingly unjust i feel, unless considered core for survival)

As for the arguments on 'trophy hunting' as a conservation for the greater good, it is arguable, demeaning the few, to serve the many is an unjust treatment. Extremely debatable, though our practice seems to favor the hunt.

As for the "capital ownership of another life" that is a deep argument and better left for another discussion.


So far,
By deduction it seems that reasoning for :

Hunting as a form of bonding is unjust.
The Camaraderie experienced can be substituted many times over without unjust treatment of an animal.

Hunting for sustenance,
plausible in an ancient time, though in a modern era , where it does not hinder your survival, it seems unjust.

Hunting as a Sport.
Trophy hunting, that has the ability to increase wildlife conservation, debatable, unjust or just, seems like a grey area.
On the note where it does not support conservation, it is completely unjust as it causes suffering and death in return for accomplishment, adventure and excitement.

@copacetic Thanks for the viewpoint, and your reply is exactly why this is not a straight forward subject
@murraybiscuit napolion was not short, Thats the most interesting fun fact ive heard for a while
@Wag haha, the honesty is refreshing
@Arzy you cannot merely eliminate the morality of , Hunting for sustenance, as it does involve many concepts that relate to moral fibre
@dreamrobin , Im trying to understand the achievement
@ghoti FIshing, hunting, Fishing, shooting a pigeon with a pellet gun, all predetermined acts of taking life, like fishing, are considered hunting.
@satanboy A picture that spoke a thousand words, from the parody of it, to the sheer sincerity.

This is not meant to be an Anti Hunting thread, I sincerely want to explore and find out the moral reasoning for taking part in the practice.

 

[Nishano]

With regards to trophy hunting and the possible conservation it enables is referred to as, "conservation reliance"

Awesome talk

[video=youtube;EEjyPqyFe_s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEjyPqyFe_s[/video]

 

[egenis]

I hunt with a bow and for me it is a combination of spending time in nature, spending time with my friends and the challenge of doing it. I currently have a very low success rate but there is just something amazing about a successful harvest. You learn a lot about yourself and quite a few lessons while stalking.

EDIT:
On a side note, I am all for using what you hunt/harvest. I cannot see why we have to shoot at animals such as lions etc.

This ^

 

[KleinBoontjie]

I hunt with a bow and for me it is a combination of spending time in nature, spending time with my friends and the challenge of doing it. I currently have a very low success rate but there is just something amazing about a successful harvest. You learn a lot about yourself and quite a few lessons while stalking.

EDIT:
On a side note, I am all for using what you hunt/harvest. I cannot see why we have to shoot at animals such as lions etc.

Very low success rate??? Does this mean you miss or wound the animal?

I get what you're saying about the Lion thing. Just google a bit and you'll find idiots posing next to Giraffes, Rhino's, Elephants etc. with their rifle of choice. Really disgusting.

 

[egenis]

Very low success rate??? Does this mean you miss or wound the animal?

Walk and stalk generally does not give you a good success rate as you need to come within 30m from the animals to get a good shot with the bow.

And they have the advantage of the keener senses.

 

[w1z4rd]

Very low success rate??? Does this mean you miss or wound the animal?

I get what you're saying about the Lion thing. Just google a bit and you'll find idiots posing next to Giraffes, Rhino's, Elephants etc. with their rifle of choice. Really disgusting.

No, its bow hunting, it means 90% of the time he cant get anywhere close enough to the animal to shoot it. With a bow you have to stalk in to be very close. Most bow hunters I know even do this barefoot.

 

[killerbyte]

Ivo Vegter wrote an article earlier this year when there was that whole lion hunting incident. http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2013-11-18-in-defence-of-a-lion-killer/#.U4wuEvmSz9w

My view point is simple and after you read that article the numbers are undeniable. Without private game farms the number of game in South Africa would be tiny, the private community keeps the populations alive and prospering. For those who have never been hunting let me make things clear there are rules. Breeding stock are not to be killed, certain animals cost more to kill than others of the same species.
My uncle takes my cousin hunting every year for meat. When my cousin is aiming my uncle stands next to him with his rifle and stands ready to shoot the animal if my cousin doesn't get a clean kill. All shots taken are for the head and neck in order to preserve the amount of meat available and ensure a quick kill.
Enough animals are killed to supply meat for an entire year, and honestly a bullet to the head while grazing is a lot less cruel than being forced to queue up in a slaughter house with the smell of blood all around you waiting to be the next one to take a bolt to the head.

Furthermore the amount of money that is brought in from hunting tourism dwarfs all that brought in by photographic tourism.

 

[irBosOtter]

I go hunting a few times a year, as do most of my friends. We go on "biltong hunting" trips, costs a bit cheaper but then you are usually not allowed to shoot trophy animals, those are for the big paying clients. Unless you want to pay for it you can shoot a trophy or two but to me that's a waste of money. Then also we enjoy the walk and stalk hunting, not sitting on a bakkie or "voorsit"
Shooting from a bakkie is more "culling" than anything else, you cannot really call it hunting. Unless it's a disabled person that can only shoot from a bakkie, but if you are able to walk, then walk.
We keep all meat, and sometimes sell/give to our friends.
I grew up in the Kalahari, my father took me and my brother on hunting trips since I was 5 years old.
I will never stop, I don't see it as cruelty towards the animals we shoot.
If you eat meat you can't really complain about hunting either

 

[karnuffel]

Very low success rate??? Does this mean you miss or wound the animal?

I get what you're saying about the Lion thing. Just google a bit and you'll find idiots posing next to Giraffes, Rhino's, Elephants etc. with their rifle of choice. Really disgusting.

LOL no, low success rate means I dont get to shoot often. I walk and stalk with a bow, this mean I need to get within 30 yards of the animal (with the wind blowing in my face), get proper shot etc.

 

[Pitbull]

@Nishano

Best would be to go on a hunting trip with your brother, father even grandad. Best memories I have of dad and grandad was from Hunting weeks we shared. Memories that I will cherish for the rest of my life. And it has nothing to do with the actual hunt itself. The hunting trip lead to these small adventures like swimming naked in a water hole to have barble nibble your feet. being taught which fruit to eat and then ending up chucking each other with these fruit and so on. None of this would have happened if we didn't go hunting.

As for conservation:

These animals are farmed purely for the reason to be hunted. if there was no market for them there would not have been any left

Honestly, go on a trip. You don't have to hunt but go and experience it then you will know what we mean by the bonding. Even better take your son with.

 

[Nishano]

@killerbyte

Thanks for the view point, and Im sure professional hunters mostly do try and act in a correct manner, like your cousin & his uncle.
As for a bullet to the head when compared to an abattoir, being a more responsible methodology, I could agree.

With regards to the Daily maverick article, it does have positive overall premise as hunting as a conservation technique, though, it is still an argument and a grey area with regards to morality. , I posted a video earlier that brings up the concept of reliance conservation. Interesting talk. none the less, still a grey area with regards to the moral implication.

@irBosOtter
interesting viewpoint, and you are correct, if you buy a biltong bag from a supermarket, you shouldn't complain about the hunting,
it would be hypocritical.

@Pitbull
No doubt that hunting trips add to the male bonding experience, though, it can be achieved without the the aspect of taking life and the hunt. The bonding experience getaway can be substituted easily with many other outdoor activity, to think it wouldn't would be narrow.

With regards to the concept of having animals farmed purely for the hunting experience, we discussed early on that capital ownership of life is left for another discussion.


Thanks all for the notes and opinions about the experience, it is surely adding value to the subject.

The main focus of this thread is to understand the morality of taking part in hunting,
we've covered many of these aspect previously, with regards to Hunting for sustenance, bonding or conservation as a sport.

They have merit in the experience for the hunter, though with regards to the CORE focus of moral fibre, these experiences and exercises in the practice of hunting are seemingly morally deterrent, or so it seems. ( at least so far )

This is not the a conclusion, though, over the last weeks, I've tired to comprehend the moral integrity of our society at large and keeping this thread in mind, it has a large repercussion on how our society functions.

Morality is the manner, character & proper behavior in which we conduct ourselves.


We've covered many aspects and it has been an education, from this point if we can continue with the focus of discussing moral high ground on the subject, I think it will give a better understanding to the thread.

The implications of the subject by a method of logical projection, can lead to answering deeper questions, on the reasoning of how we treat each other.

Thanks for all your feedback.

 

[Arzy]

@killerbyte

Thanks for the view point, and Im sure professional hunters mostly do try and act in a correct manner, like your cousin & his uncle.
As for a bullet to the head when compared to an abattoir, being a more responsible methodology, I could agree.

With regards to the Daily maverick article, it does have positive overall premise as hunting as a conservation technique, though, it is still an argument and a grey area with regards to morality. , I posted a video earlier that brings up the concept of reliance conservation. Interesting talk. none the less, still a grey area with regards to the moral implication.

@irBosOtter
interesting viewpoint, and you are correct, if you buy a biltong bag from a supermarket, you shouldn't complain about the hunting,
it would be hypocritical.

@Pitbull
No doubt that hunting trips add to the male bonding experience, though, it can be achieved without the the aspect of taking life and the hunt. The bonding experience getaway can be substituted easily with many other outdoor activity, to think it wouldn't would be narrow.

With regards to the concept of having animals farmed purely for the hunting experience, we discussed early on that capital ownership of life is left for another discussion.


Thanks all for the notes and opinions about the experience, it is surely adding value to the subject.

The main focus of this thread is to understand the morality of taking part in hunting,
we've covered many of these aspect previously, with regards to Hunting for sustenance, bonding or conservation as a sport.

They have merit in the experience for the hunter, though with regards to the CORE focus of moral fibre, these experiences and exercises in the practice of hunting are seemingly morally deterrent, or so it seems. ( at least so far )

This is not the a conclusion, though, over the last weeks, I've tired to comprehend the moral integrity of our society at large and keeping this thread in mind, it has a large repercussion on how our society functions.

Morality is the manner, character & proper behavior in which we conduct ourselves.


We've covered many aspects and it has been an education, from this point if we can continue with the focus of discussing moral high ground on the subject, I think it will give a better understanding to the thread.

The implications of the subject by a method of logical projection, can lead to answering deeper questions, on the reasoning of how we treat each other.

Thanks for all your feedback.

My problem with the question you are asking is that I don't see where morality comes into hunting.

It's possible that my view is somewhat different as my family have a cattle stud.

I can go onto the farm and as easily shoot a cow to be sent to the local butcher for our own use or for the workers if they have having a wedding or some other celebration as I would go hunting and shoot a buck for my own use.

In both instances the animals are kept for the ultimate end purpose of consumption, either as breeding stock to improve existing herds or purely as commercial herds. Nobody is going to run a farm with the purpose of watching the animals die of old age.

 

[Nishano]

@Arzy
The question of morality should be deployed on every subject and a subjective subject as hunting is in the direct firing line of moral fiber,



I've learnt allot over the last few weeks from this forum and even though I would not partake in the sport, I have come to understand it on a much better level as well as respect some of the points made on the topic.

As a result, I am less angst towards the subject.

My thoughts have evolved towards Ethical Moral behavior and how it effects our society, it is a vast and multi layered subject and better left for another thread,

this said...this subject we have discussed over the last few weeks is directly related to how how our society functions and the manner in which we treat each other.

Thanks for all the comments.

 

[k-4]

I cant eat it?

Put a McDonald's cheese burger in a tree and stalk that. Im sure it tastes better too.


Or do society a favor buy hunting flys and mosquitos, I hear they taste like butter.

Lol im joking, don't take it so hard, what game do you hunt? Do you hunt any indangered species?

 

[marine1]

View attachment 122325

Amen.
You have to be some sick twisted piece of **** to murder some animal for fun.
Maybe you were abused as a kid or something like that.
It cannot be a normal brain function to kill a defenseless animal just to try show your inbred friends how big your dick is.

I would live to let you pics of crap run around in the bush scared for your life and have me chase you with semi auto rifles or huge bolt actions ones.

Maybe then you wouldn't feel like such a big boy?

****ing makes me mad. I would hate to see someone shoot an animal in front of me........may be the last thing that person does.

 

[CL-West]

I have never hunted before and I have never wanted to,

However I would like to do it just once, so that I can check it of the bucket list.