Hyundai i20 versus VW Polo Vivo

LancelotSA

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Even the people taking part in the thread don't know what we're discussing any more. It's a mishmash of Polos old and new, Corsas Lite and heavy, Hyundais of various flavours & seemingly anything else remotely related to objects with steering wheels...

Ha ha the initial choice was, and still is, between a high specced Vivo and an i20. The i20 seemed to be winning but then the choice between the 1.4 and 1.6 came into the mix. This pushed the price up to R160,000 odd which then resulted in Corsas, Polos etc being thrown into the mix ;)

Still interested on opinions on whether it is really worth the extra R10,000 to go from 1.4 to 1.6?
 
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Fudzy

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Ha ha the initial choice was, and still is, between a high specced Vivo and an i20. The i20 seemed to be winning but then the choice between the 1.4 and 1.6 came into the mix. This pushed the price up to R160,000 odd which then resulted in Corsas, Polos etc being thrown into the mix ;)

Still interested on opinions on whether it is really worth the extra R10,000 to go from 1.4 to 1.6?

Depends on what she is used to, I think in most cases a 1.4 would be fine.
 

HapticSimian

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Eish, for someone in the motoring industry I would've expected you to know that the JD Power survey is based on number of faults per 100 cars (or something to that affect) what you've highlighted there are preliminary reviews. If quality was just measured on materials used I'd agree with you but it isn't.

a) You base your assumption that I don't know that on what, exactly and b) it matters how? These are still surveys compiled from customer feedback and my point is that customer feedback is biased, unreliable and widely and wildly influenced by external factors...
 

the graduate

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Ha ha the initial choice was, and still is, between a high specced Vivo and an i20. The i20 seemed to be winning but then the choice between the 1.4 and 1.6 came into the mix. This pushed the price up to R160,000 odd which then resulted in Corsas, Polos etc being thrown into the mix ;)

Still interested on opinions on whether it is really worth the extra R10,000 to go from 1.4 to 1.6?
no, the 1.4 is most likely the more popular model...it should trade better...find out from the second hand dealer...should be evident from the 1.4- 1.6 Getz...

we were in a similar position with th old pre-vivo Polo.....1.6 Comfort or 2.0 Highline...dealer said the 2.0 guzzles more fuel in town than 1.6 and second-hand buyers in general enquire about 1.6 models more than 2.0...

EDIT: Sorry, is it really R10k....well then yes....1.6...I think it comes with 15'' alloys standard...should be at least R5k worth...
 

HapticSimian

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Still interested on opinions on whether it is really worth the extra R10,000 to go from 1.4 to 1.6?

Short answer - yes. If you're financing you're talking about less than R200 p/m difference... And with civilised, real-world use, you'd most likely find the 1.6 to be marginally more economical than the 1.4... Up to a point you're less likely to thrash a bigger motor in the process of just getting from A to B. Foot not buried in the carpet = better consumption.
 
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Fudzy

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a) You base your assumption that I don't know that on what, exactly and b) it matters how? These are still surveys compiled from customer feedback and my point is that customer feedback is biased, unreliable and widely and wildly influenced by external factors...

A) The fact that a quality report is different from a review.

B) You seem to think reliablility doesn't factor into quality (although I shouldn't be suprised seeing as you work for VW)

Okay let's try simplify this... A car manufacturer builds a decent looking car, nice interior, the works. Top Gear reviews the car, gives it praise. Consumers take the reviews into consideration and start buying this car. A couple months down the line and a list of faults start to appear. JD Power records these faults based on consumer input. Now who has a better guage on the quality of the car, Top Gear or JD Power?
 

Mike Hoxbig

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A) The fact that a quality report is different from a review.

B) You seem to think reliablility doesn't factor into quality (although I shouldn't be suprised seeing as you work for VW)

Okay let's try simplify this... A car manufacturer builds a decent looking car, nice interior, the works. Top Gear reviews the car, gives it praise. Consumers take the reviews into consideration and start buying this car. A couple months down the line and a list of faults start to appear. JD Power records these faults based on consumer input. Now who has a better guage on the quality of the car, Top Gear or JD Power?
To be fair, I wouldn't consider Top Gear to be the most reliable form of consumer advice :p
 
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Fudzy

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no, the 1.4 is most likely the more popular model...it should trade better...find out from the second hand dealer...should be evident from the 1.4- 1.6 Getz...

we were in a similar position with th old pre-vivo Polo.....1.6 Comfort or 2.0 Highline...dealer said the 2.0 guzzles more fuel in town than 1.6 and second-hand buyers in general enquire about 1.6 models more than 2.0...

EDIT: Sorry, is it really R10k....well then yes....1.6...I think it comes with 15'' alloys standard...should be at least R5k worth...

If you're talking about the i20 they come with wheel covers AFAIK (unless they changed their offer since January), I'm actually wishing I opted for the 1.4, majority of my driving is in the city and surrounding so it's a lot of stop/start driving and it is quite thirsty(between 8-10l/100KM), the minute its on the freeway that number drops significantly though.
 

LancelotSA

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Short answer - yes. If you're financing you're talking about less than R200 p/m difference... And with civilised, real-world use, you'd most likely find the 1.6 to be marginally more economical than the 1.4... Up to a point you're less likely to thrash a bigger motor in the process of just getting from A to B. Foot not buried in the carpet = better consumption.

Nope, paying cash. Yeah, I looked at the fuel economy of both and although very similar I realised that in real world use you may find the 1.6 actually being better. Also I was thinking about highway cruising. Less engine strain on the 1.6 at sustained higher speeds.
 
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Fudzy

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Nope, paying cash. Yeah, I looked at the fuel economy of both and although very similar I realised that in real world use you may find the 1.6 actually being better. Also I was thinking about highway cruising. Less engine strain on the 1.6 at sustained higher speeds.

If you're doing a lot of highway driving then I'd definately suggest the 1.6, if you're paying cash make sure you milk the sales rep for a decent discount/add ons etc.
 

LancelotSA

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If you're doing a lot of highway driving then I'd definately suggest the 1.6, if you're paying cash make sure you milk the sales rep for a decent discount/add ons etc.

The thing is I tried that... and they claimed they are actually better off if you finance the car as they then get kickbacks from the bank.
 

Mike Hoxbig

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Nope, paying cash. Yeah, I looked at the fuel economy of both and although very similar I realised that in real world use you may find the 1.6 actually being better. Also I was thinking about highway cruising. Less engine strain on the 1.6 at sustained higher speeds.
What you're looking for then is a car with a more torque, and a relatively flat torque curve.

More power doesn't necessarily translate into better fuel economy. Torque, however, will allow you to get into a higher gear earlier. Less shifting generally gives you better consumption.

To be honest, this is where the Vivo really is better. The 1.4 and 1.6 in the VW and Hyundai produce pretty much exactly the same amount of torque, however the torque on the VW peaks at about 3500 RPM, whereas it peaks at about 4200 RPM on the Hyundai. The torque curve on the VW is also pretty flat, meaning that most of the torque is available throughout the rev range so there's less stirring of the gearbox.

Just an observation, no bias ;) But if your main criteria is fuel consumption then get a diesel.
 

LancelotSA

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To be honest, this is where the Vivo really is better. The 1.4 and 1.6 in the VW and Hyundai produce pretty much exactly the same amount of torque, however the torque on the VW peaks at about 3500 RPM, whereas it peaks at about 4200 RPM on the Hyundai. The torque curve on the VW is also pretty flat, meaning that most of the torque is available throughout the rev range so there's less stirring of the gearbox.

Yet the quoted fuel consumption figures are superior for the i20. And I realise these hardly ever equate to every day use.
 

HapticSimian

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A) The fact that a quality report is different from a review.

B) You seem to think reliablility doesn't factor into quality (although I shouldn't be suprised seeing as you work for VW)

Okay let's try simplify this... A car manufacturer builds a decent looking car, nice interior, the works. Top Gear reviews the car, gives it praise. Consumers take the reviews into consideration and start buying this car. A couple months down the line and a list of faults start to appear. JD Power records these faults based on consumer input. Now who has a better guage on the quality of the car, Top Gear or JD Power?

...and? An American manufacturer builds a crappy looking car, brittle plastic interior, the works. TopGear reviews the car, and slates it from here to next week. Consumers in America ignore the reviews, because they're unaware of a world outside their borders, and buy the car anyway. A couple of months down the line a list of faults still isn't evident because the majority of Cadillac buyers are typical patriotic, non-too-bright "USA!, USA!"-types who don't slate home-grown products, and aren't used to anything better anyway. Who now has a better gauge on the quality of the car, TopGear or the U.S. J.D. Power survey?

Surveys are at best indicators of trends - they are not the be-all and end-all of car buying decisions.

All people don't look at all cars with the same criteria. You seem to attach by far the most importance to mechanical reliability, which just leads you to a boring, soulless appliance. My Samsung washing machine is extremely reliable - hasn't missed a beat in 8 years - but I'm not about to be seen driving it to the shops. However I absolutely adored my 27-year old Alfa that wouldn't start every now and again...

Oh, and FIY, TopGear was the UK partner to J.D. Power for the British version of the survey. Are we really going through all this only to agree that the CITI is a POS?
 

Mike Hoxbig

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Yet the quoted fuel consumption figures are superior for the i20. And I realise these hardly ever equate to every day use.
Yeah I rarely go with quoted fuel consumptions because manufacturers don't tend to reveal their test conditions. It's a good yardstick, but ultimately your driving style determines your consumption.
 

HapticSimian

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The thing is I tried that... and they claimed they are actually better off if you finance the car as they then get kickbacks from the bank.
True story ;)

To be fair, I wouldn't consider Top Gear to be the most reliable form of consumer advice :p

Agreed but enigma used Top Gear reviews, hence why I used it in the example.
In the interest of fairness, try to separate TopGear TV form TopGear Magazine - the former is meant to be entertaining, the latter is one of the most respected motoring rags in the world. :)
 
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Fudzy

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Are we really going through all this only to agree that the CITI is a POS?

No, to agree that Hyundai has better quality than VW, than was the original argument wasn't it?

...and? An American manufacturer builds a crappy looking car, brittle plastic interior, the works. TopGear reviews the car, and slates it from here to next week. Consumers in America ignore the reviews, because they're unaware of a world outside their borders, and buy the car anyway. A couple of months down the line a list of faults still isn't evident because the majority of Cadillac buyers are typical patriotic, non-too-bright "USA!, USA!"-types who don't slate home-grown products, and aren't used to anything better anyway. Who now has a better gauge on the quality of the car, TopGear or the U.S. J.D. Power survey?

Really? That's quite a sweeping accusation of the American car buyer, who were the other manufacturers at the top?
 
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HapticSimian

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No, to agree that Hyundai has better quality than VW, that was the original argument wasn't it?

For that to happen we need to agree on what elements exactly, and weighted to which proportions, the concept of 'quality' embodies. As you and I seem to differ fundamentally on that, I doubt agreement is a likely outcome.

As mentioned waaaaay back, my impression of the Hyundais on our own introduction to the Vivo left me moderately impressed. They do come with a lot of kit, and superficial quality seems decent enough. However I know, from sitting through boring and long-winded presentations on both manufacturers' models, that European cars as a rule are designed and built to a more exacting standard from better materials. That's not to say that something from Hyundai can't create an impression of quality, and even be very well screwed together. However, extrapolate the underlying design philosophy of each to the extreme, and subject them to abnormal stresses and strains, and the Europeans will hold out better.

Why do you think a GTI simply feels better going around a track than, say, a Tiburon? Because it's more rigid, better balanced and more communicative a drive. That, in my view, is a more pertinent indicator of underlying 'quality' than the ability to hammer around an oval track for 700,000km without blowing a headlight globe.

EDIT

There are always exceptions to the rule - I love Scoobies!
 
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