I cannot apologise for fighting against apartheid': Robert McBride defends Durban bombing

[TysonRoux]

How about apologizing for targeting innocent civilians?

At one point they were targeting infrastructure such as power pylons etc.

 

[Tokolotshe]

Sorry, am not sure what "re-written" history you are referring to....? I never disputed that the ANC killed innocent people, I was simply saying that the Nats did more than their fair share of it too...

Craig Williamson admitted to the TRC that he mailed the letter bomb that killed Jeanette Schoon and her daughter....

Fair.

I was responding to the saint image of the ANC.

My point is people see in black and white, forget the grey that was the ordinary South African that were caught up in the middle, whose lived experience was totally different. Some had it good, some bad. It was also not purely along racial lines.

 

[Nick333]

Why the need to go bomb a restoraunt with civilians and not a say a police/army/political office/union buildings etc?

Oh wait, easy target.

Police and army got guns.

 

[Tokolotshe]

I think a person would have been very ignorant, maybe even stupid, if he/she did not realise that a new constitution meant the end of apartheid. After all, the previous big change was the tricameral parliament which was a clear indication of where things were heading.

After the tricameral parliament there was a big backlash from conservatives in the form of the Conservative Party but people still elected the National Party. I therefore have no doubt that the National Party had the support of the majority of the electorate to end apartheid and they started doing so long before the second referendum.

All that I have to add here:
... and those were not all traditional Nat voters.

 

[rambo919]

snip

I honestly have no idea what exactly you are disagreeing with me on.....

 

[Tokolotshe]

I honestly have no idea what you are disagreeing with me on.....

People choosing sides not understanding what life was like, what changed, how we got to today. Black and white views - nothing in between. It's much more complex than people would have us believe.

People laugh at "Rooi Gevaar" today. Were the Russians involved in Angola? A simple yes or no, will get you a yes. That in itself has a big story behind it.

The referenda had everything to do with it. This was helped on by the fall of the Berlin Wall. You are referring to the time just before PW Botha's disastrous Rubicon speech where he was supposed to unban the ANC. He obviously had other plans although he did start the process that F W de Klerk eventually finished.

Why did the Berlin Wall fall? That was part of the fall of the USSR. We we in a strategic position at the tip of South Africa. Russia was extremely involved in Africa. The West needed an ally. "Either you're with us, or you're against us."

When the USSR failed, the cold war ended. That is the Berlin Wall Freddl refers to. In a way, South Africa played no small part in that war. It affected each and every one of us. We were pawns in the global cold war. Some also benefitted by being puppets in this war.

Ignorance is bliss. Also deceitful. Round and around we go.

 

[rambo919]

People choosing sides not understanding what life was like, what changed, how we got to today. Black and white views - nothing in between. It's much more complex than people would have us believe.

People laugh at "Rooi Gevaar" today. Were the Russians involved in Angola? A simple yes or no, will get you a yes. That in itself has a big story behind it.

I'm not disagreeing with that.

My pov is no matter what circumstance you are in, if you choose an evil path you must carry the consequences. There is no excusing doing actually evil deeds, this is true for both sides. One must always keep proportion in mind, the worse the crimes the worse the punishment.

You can easily be on the "good" side and deserve death. How life is does not change whether something is good or bad it just flavours it.

Anyone laughing at the rooi gevaar is either ignorant or delusional, we are still suffering from the curse of victory, people think this is the worst it could have been probably because they have nothing worse actually affecting them to compare it to and refuse to actually realize what happened elsewhere in the world is not just a story.

No one actually asked me but yes I believe that the corrupt elements of the NP deserve death just as much as their ANC counterparts BUT you cannot punish one without punishing the other using the exact same measurements of guilt.

It seems like many just plain decided to paint me as a racist Apartheid apologist and frankly it pissed me off, not so much the painting as the blind idiocy behind it. This is married with the accusation that someone has to be "taught" something just because the accuser him/herself seemingly does not actually possess the capability for critical thought.

There are enough books and video material for ANYONE to make up their own minds whether they actually were part of any of the events at all. If someone took part they might actually have a warped view because they suffer from the delusion that everything actually happened solely as was observed from their limited perspective.

I am objective about this because I made the CHOICE to be, many others here clearly have not, and yes I have the capability to ignore obvious BS or see when someone is writing his book either objectively or subjective it's hardly rocket science.

And then there was the idiot ranting and raving as if drunk but nvm him.

 

[Tokolotshe]

I'm not disagreeing with that.

My pov is no matter what circumstance you are in, if you choose an evil path you must carry the consequences. There is no excusing doing actually evil deeds, this is true for both sides. One must always keep proportion in mind, the worse the crimes the worse the punishment.

You can easily be on the "good" side and deserve death. How life is does not change whether something is good or bad it just flavours it.

Anyone laughing at the rooi gevaar is either ignorant or delusional, we are still suffering from the curse of victory, people think this is the worst it could have been probably because they have nothing worse actually affecting them to compare it to and refuse to actually realize what happened elsewhere in the world is not just a story.

No one actually asked me but yes I believe that the corrupt elements of the NP deserve death just as much as their ANC counterparts BUT you cannot punish one without punishing the other using the exact same measurements of guilt.

It seems like many just plain decided to paint me as a racist Apartheid apologist and frankly it pissed me off, not so much the painting as the blind idiocy behind it. This is married with the accusation that someone has to be "taught" something just because the accuser him/herself seemingly does not actually possess the capability for critical thought.

There are enough books and video material for ANYONE to make up their own minds whether they actually were part of any of the events at all. If someone took part they might actually have a warped view because they suffer from the delusion that everything actually happened solely as was observed from their limited perspective.

I am objective about this because I made the CHOICE to be, many others here clearly have not, and yes I have the capability to ignore obvious BS or see when someone is writing his book either objectively or subjective it's hardly rocket science.

And then there was the idiot ranting and raving as if drunk but nvm him.

I'm not arguing with you. I responded to some comments you made, giving my experience, also some facts relevant to Freddl's symbolic Berlin Wall.

The only thing I have to add, not necessarily aimed at you; watch out what you read. The truth is easily distorted while history is re-written by the "victors" (for own personal goals).

 

[rambo919]

I'm not arguing with you. I responded to some comments you made, giving my experience, also some facts relevant to Freddl's symbolic Berlin Wall.

The only thing I have to add, not necessarily aimed at you; watch out what you read. The truth is easily distorted while history is re-written by the "victors" (for own personal goals).

That's why I make a point of sometimes reading books from slightly crazy people too, getting more than just one tired angle. Most of popular history currently being in left-leaning hands I also sometimes make a point of reading the exact opposite and comparing the two. The more angles you have the clearer the truth can become.

I acknowledge you are not arguiing with me.... your text wall completely took me off guard though and I did not really know what to make of it.

 

[jack_spratt]

Then dont apologize for fighting apartheid, apologize for killing innocents.

 

[MachoPants]

Click click headline that makes him seem like an extremist.
These two paragraphs add a bit more nuance:

I won't miss that man when he departs this world, he wasn't sorry or regretful. He could have avoided it, he chose to bomb, bombs kill, everyone knows that. Know he says he is not proud, he should be disgusted with himself, what person would be proud of causing death. Total BS McBride

 

[Neuk_]

I cannot apologise for being against race based policies like AA, BEE, etc.

 

[konfab]

I won't miss that man when he departs this world, he wasn't sorry or regretful. He could have avoided it, he chose to bomb, bombs kill, everyone knows that. Know he says he is not proud, he should be disgusted with himself, what person would be proud of causing death. Total BS McBride

What the ANC were really fighting for was to dominate the other opposition to apartheid, such that when it collapsed, they would be the ones on top.
It was why the necklacings occurred in the townships and not in the suburbs.

None of their terrorism did anything to defeat the government. It was international sanctions that did it.

 

[rambo919]

What the ANC were really fighting for was to dominate the other opposition to apartheid

Thats why their battle cry was POWER not FREEDOM