I cannot apologise for fighting against apartheid': Robert McBride defends Durban bombing

[Nicodeamus]

My father was in the Soweto Riots and part of the police that did the patrolling. Today his best friend is a black guy that lost his brother due to a blind bullet. Neither one of them chose the circumstances that they were brought into and I find it very difficult to bring judgement to people that operated as Soldiers for either the regime or some kind of cause.

What I always find remarkable is that people who experienced violence and who were involved in it do not want it to continue.

What I would like to see from McBride would be to meet those who lost their family members and try to bring some kind of condolences. I would also like to see some kind of introspection from the ANC of the mistakes that they made during the ''liberation movement''. I think a good sense of honesty won't do S.A any harm.

My personal experience has been that when faced with Trauma, we all get irrational. I was on the Paris train during the attacks on the Bataclan club. I will never forget how calm the street of Paris was the next morning. You could hear a pin drop next to the Eiffel tower and Notre Damme. During that moment I would easily have supported Carpet Bombing someone out of Revenge.

 

[MachoPants]

All acts of murder can not be condoned. But we have all read stories about apartheid forces' acts of bravery... Killing school children and women... etc... People must not now try to act all concerned about civilians, the apartheid government made civilians fair game during the time. I guess what I am saying is... The murders committed by Robert are no different to many committed by apartheid police against civilian targets...

519 were killed by the police and security forces and the rest were black on black killings using for instance "necklacing" as a means do dehuminise their victims.

Don't forget the ANC used camps to kill, torture their own people. Anyone thought to be not for the ANC was taken out.

 

[rambo919]

Your strawman again. I'm only pointing out that those events didn't happen in a vacuum.

No strawman, there are no excuses for necklaces, assassinations or re-education torture no matter who does it. The NP also has it's measure of guilt and I am not excusing that but it pales to the barbarism of it's opponents and actually only escalated in response...... it was literally insulted as being reactionary by the bloodthirsty "strugglers", it was pushed in an insane game of chicken and it chose the wrong path.

Im am not accusing you of this now but I find it interesting that often the same people will call people "halocaust deniers" for saying nothing happens in a vacuum but then turn around and pick the opposite view when it comes the the "struggle".... either something is an inexcusable atrocity or it is not.

 

[MachoPants]

I don't have time for this - go through the Truth and Reconciliation Commission transcripts.

Which was a total farce and white wash that excluded the atrocities of the ANC.

 

[rambo919]

Which was a total farce and white wash that excluded the atrocities of the ANC.

It's more that the one side wanted to confess it's sins and the other wanted to conceal as many as they could....... PW was smarter than all the others to refuse to go to that witch trial.

 

[MidnightWizard]

This article was not written by Baruch Hirson but by Paul Trewhela. Shortly before his death Baruch insisted that this piece, published in Searchlight South Africa, No.5 in July 1990 should get maximum exposure on a website.

The ANC/SACP did a very good job in preventing public knowledge of its secret history from emerging, and the testimony of the Nairobi five shows how. (Two other South Africans, both women, are with the five in Nairobi at the time of writing, but they have not yet gone public about their experiences). Those who survived the Gulag system of the ANC/SACP did so knowing that to reveal what they had been through meant re-arrest, renewed tortures and in all probability, death. They had to sign a form committing them to silence.

INSIDE QUADRO End of an Era

Inside Quatro: Uncovering the Exile History of the ANC and SWAPO

How MK members "gagged their own mouths"

 

[Rouxenator]

Wonder how he would feel if some of his family died in a bombing?

 

[John_Phoenix]

Why the need to go bomb a restoraunt with civilians and not a say a police/army/political office/union buildings etc?

Oh wait, easy target.

Cause they gave him shite service, and the waitress turned him down. Think about it, why that restaurant, at that time?

 

[Gnarls]

No strawman, there are no excuses for necklaces, assassinations or re-education torture no matter who does it. The NP also has it's measure of guilt and I am not excusing that but it pales to the barbarism of it's opponents and actually only escalated in response...... it was literally insulted as being reactionary by the bloodthirsty "strugglers", it was pushed in an insane game of chicken and it chose the wrong path.

Im am not accusing you of this now but I find it interesting that often the same people will call people "halocaust deniers" for saying nothing happens in a vacuum but then turn around and pick the opposite view when it comes the the "struggle".... either something is an inexcusable atrocity or it is not.

Still a strawman as I'm not making excuses.

 

[rambo919]

Still a strawman as I'm not making excuses.

At worst I misunderstood your meaning, no strawman.

 

[LazyLion]

You speak like the 'armed resistance' was plan A. Madiba too, was a radical in his youth. Furthermore, how do you reconcile the actions of a soldier in war?

Dude, black people in this country were treated as sub-human. Just cause everyone is doing it don't make it right.

Whataboutism.

Cheers

Let me know when you have some real points to argue...

 

[Slootvreter]

McBride is such a poeshead

 

[Gnarls]

Let me know when you have some real points to argue...

Meh, keep your blinkered view then. See my responses to Rambo.

 

[Mar Vin]

While on the topic of "no empathy" when you're seeing body parts of women and children everywhere. This I agree with...

To those who strongly feel so. Are your sentiments the same where atrocities against those affected by apartheid

So what moral legitimacy do you have when you are no better than your oppressor?



https://rationalstandard.com/peoples-war/

The only way to have dealt with the apartheid government was by dealing with them the very same way they dealt with the oppressed.
They were never willing to talk up until the brink of a Civil War. They saw it coming.

Quick to brand those who fought back as criminals. Yes innocent people died. On both sides. One did it for freedom, the other to stay in power. What would you choose?

 

[Slootvreter]

Meh, keep your blinkered view then. See my responses to Rambo.

Viva McBride?

 

[MachoPants]

It's more that the one side wanted to confess it's sins and the other wanted to conceal as many as they could....... PW was smarter than all the others to refuse to go to that witch trial.

Some may have confessed sins, others had their apologies given to them. Fact is many on both sides faced no questions

 

[Stonemason]

You speak like the 'armed resistance' was plan A. Madiba too, was a radical in his youth. Furthermore, how do you reconcile the actions of a soldier in war?

Try to get hold of a book by Henry R Pike called A History of Communism in South Africa. This book will help you understand a lot about the origins of the armed struggle. The writer was not completely objective in the book and appear to be a little bit anti-semitic, but it is as close to what really happened as is possible in a divided South Africa.

Any person who want to understand why South Africa is what it is, should include this book in his/her reading list.

 

[Mar Vin]

I still don't see how that justifies killing other innocents?
Are you saying that tit-for-tat murders are OK?

The concept of war right? Hit you where it hurts the most.

Many here seem ok that innocents were murdered by apartheid but not that the roles were reversed./

point should be that its wrong regardless.

 

[Mar Vin]

How does the saying go? "Dies wat nie wil hoor, sal voel".....

 

[rambo919]

The only way to have dealt with the apartheid government was by dealing with them the very same way they dealt with the oppressed.
They were never willing to talk up until the brink of a Civil War. They saw it coming.

Except that it was never they that actually did anything major to end Apartheid. In the end it was sanctions that killed the regime and the actions of the strugglers actually ended up delaying the handover.