Keeper

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Their power will go out exactly because they didn't know.

What? :confused:

So inadvertently it actually becomes your problem.

Why would it be my problem if another town overused their power capacity, and their power trips? That's their town's problem.


You know you're not on a schedule for likely load shedding today so no need to save while piet pompies is on a schedule to get cut no matter what so no need to save.

This is my whole point.
Nobody cares to save power with the current system and this is why we are having problems in the first place!

Gives people a reason to save and the more you save the less frequent it becomes therefor giving you something for your trouble.

You just admitted there is no incentive for piet pompies to save, now you are saying the opposite, that people have a reason to save.
"Oh, we are on stage 2? Too bad for them, it's not my turn on the schedule!"

In my system, the only time their power gets cut, is when they themselves use too much.... and the only way to get it back on, is to immediately manage their usage.
Not some rotating schedule system where everyone gets punished, and whoever is not affected at that time don't give a damn.


My idea gives INCENTIVE to manage power (If Benoni doesn't, only they will be held responsible)
Once people start saving power efficiently, The power won't NEED to be cut. at all.



There doesn't need to be any load shedding people - we must all just use a little less.
Without any incentive to use less, that can't happen. Doesn't anybody understand this???
 
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supersunbird

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While initially I thought your idea has merit, your last post removed any idea that it did.

There is enough incentive to use less, lower electricity bill, pricing is high already.

An even better incentive will be time based pricing, and that also requires smart metres. People will then switch over to gas for their cooking (which often happens at peaks times) for example. They'd switch their geyser to only heat at off peak times.

If the government/Eskom did a rollout of that correctly, they'd save money due to scale of rollout.
 

Jladan

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
845
While this is a creative thought and I do like it, it does not solve the core problem which is Eskom has over a third of its capacity off line at any one time. If we implement this wonderful plan I'm afraid Eskom offline capacity will just grow and the customer will be just told to limit more until there is literally no capacity left
 

quovadis

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Sep 10, 2004
Messages
11,029
People will be rocking up at his house very quickly if all his stuff is on like that, after the 5th time the power trips and doesn't turn on.

Right now people can only blame the schedule if it goes off, nothing else. and then they must sit without power for hours.
In my system people can at least do something.

That sounds like anarchy. Go beat up a neighbour because he is not "towing the line" allegedly.
 

Midnight_choir_drunk

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Nov 2, 2012
Messages
3,750
We are all sick of load shedding... all these schedules to keep up with and being without power for 2.5 to 5 hours in a single day just sucks.
I can't imagine the loss for businesses.

So, how can this be fixed?
Well, let us first identify the main problem why "Load Shedding" does not work.

INCENTIVE.

Incentive to save power, to be more clear.
In the current load shedding system nobody gives a damn about actually saving power.
We're all in this system that cuts power on a predetermined schedule, depending on the load (Stage 1-3).
A person in Boksburg has no incentive to shut down some of his appliances if his schedule has already passed. The guy sitting in Durban is perhaps scheduled and therefore sitting without power.

So round and round we go... the ones inside the schedule sit with zero power, and the rest of the country off the schedule just use as much power as they want. Why? cause they don't care,
They aren't concerned about trying to save any power at all because they are not currently in load shedding. It's not their problem.

This is the flaw with the current load shedding system - nobody has any real incentive to try and save power.
"Why Turn off my TV's or lights, It's Witbanks turn to cut their power!"



So here's how it can be fixed.

In my system everyone will have power. all day. no scheduled power cutting. ;)

Let's call it "Load Balancing".
In this system, the country is divided into groups. perhaps every city can be a group, or maybe every municipality.
For the sake of the argument, let's split by cities. Also, please do not nitpick MW values, I'm just using simple figures as an example and to make this easy to understand.

Eskom allocates each city a "power budget" based on historical data. Let's say Boksburg needed 100MW in the past.
We now only might have 80% of the total power capability we had a few years ago before that power station went down, so Boksburg has 80MW.
Every city now has a figure. Boksburg has 80MW, Durban might have 120MW, etc, etc.

Everyone with me so far?

Each city gets an allotted MW value. There is no more load shedding schedules. Nobody needs to sit with no power for 2.5 - 5 hours based on some time table.
Now, If the people of boksburg don't want to save power like the rest of us, and they go over their 80MW limit, their power gets cut. BOOM.
The power will switch back on in 15 minutes. They now have a chance to switch off excess appliances, lights, geysers, TVs, etc, etc. in this 15 minutes.

If, in 15 minutes, they have not switched off enough, the power will go off again - This time for 30 minutes. C'mon boksburg, get your act together now.
30 minutes later and nobody in boksburg is working together to save power? Now it will only try to come on in 1 hour. Still not enough? Now it will only check every 2 hours.... until they switch off enough.

They are the only ones responsible for being without power.
This gives an incentive for the people of "Boksburg" to cut their electricity usage. If they can't cut their usage habits, only they are going to suffer... not everyone else.

Once people realize that if they don't work together, that only their own power will remain cut, I guarantee you people will start switching off appliances very quickly.

If George citizens manage their power well, they might never see any power cuts.
Twitter can be used, too. You subscribe to "Eskom_George" for example, and if George's power reaches 90% capacity, Eskom can sent out a tweet to that account. simple as that.
DSTV could have a channel with a map of south africa, color coded by power usage, and perhaps a list of the top 10 cities that might need to watch out.


This system makes it so that everyone has power - just a little less. If we can manage our power better, there will be no cuts.
Businesses won't lose as much money due to power cuts, or needing to use generators.... and we don't need to sit in the 18th century for 2 to 5 hours every day.

People will be encouraged to save power, because if they can't save electricity, only they themselves will sit without it.



Your thoughts?

I had a similar idea. I definitely think this would work.
 

Sherbang

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May 14, 2008
Messages
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Sounds like a good idea to me, just not sure if it's technically feasible
 

supersunbird

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Another thing:

ITS ALREADY BEING DONE!

Eskom tells a city or town what they need to shed (so many MW). Cape Town can be on stage 1 or 0 due to saving power somewhere while everyone else is on stage 2 for example. So blame your municipalities for not offering you this.
 

RVQ

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Apr 30, 2007
Messages
2,311
The sad truth is if we worked together we could bring down our usage to a point where load shedding is not needed. Mentioned previously so many people just don't care, they have everything in their household turned on 24/7 and complain continuously because they getting load shed.

I don't pay per use for my electricity so I can go crazy with my usage but when I'm not at home the only thing turned on is my fridge. When I'm at home it's just basically my PC, Fridge and the energy saver light in the room I'm in that's turned on.
 

Johnatan56

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Aug 23, 2013
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30,955
The sad truth is if we worked together we could bring down our usage to a point where load shedding is not needed. Mentioned previously so many people just don't care, they have everything in their household turned on 24/7 and complain continuously because they getting load shed.

I don't pay per use for my electricity so I can go crazy with my usage but when I'm not at home the only thing turned on is my fridge. When I'm at home it's just basically my PC, Fridge and the energy saver light in the room I'm in that's turned on.

For me add and extra 2 lights and the TV and a laptop for family of 5 :p
 

dunkyd

Executive Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
5,626
By far the easiest way to avoid load shedding is the way I did it.
Spend + - R7 G's on inverter/ups, batteries , boxes and cables.
Connect all together. Get multimeter , pen and paper ready.
Sit back and wait.
Not a minutes outage since !!!
3rd week in May.:eek:
 

stefan9

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Messages
11,076
As long as people have the above attitude, it will never work.

Idiots think they're spiting Eskom by wasting electricity. You're just hurting yourself at the end.

They shouldn't need to be cutting anything Eskom should be doing their job properly and then there would be no issue...
 

Keeper

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Messages
23,624
"Spend 7 Grand on inverters/etc"
"Eskom should just do their job"
"Simply Vote for DA"
"Eskom should just add more capacity"
"The real solution is getting rid of ANC"
"Rollout millions of devices for individual limiting"


Wow these are much better than my idea.... We should all totally just do any of these as it would solve the load shedding problem.

My idea is rubbish, how dumb was I to think people would try to save power if they're sitting in the dark hour after hour.
And cutting the power to the city that is going over their Mega Watt limit? That's just dumb, lets rather just keep the system of cutting everyone's power for 2 - 5 hours per day.
 

supersunbird

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Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
60,142
"Spend 7 Grand on inverters/etc"
"Eskom should just do their job"
"Simply Vote for DA"
"Eskom should just add more capacity"
"The real solution is getting rid of ANC"
"Rollout millions of devices for individual limiting"


Wow these are much better than my idea.... We should all totally just do any of these as it would solve the load shedding problem.

My idea is rubbish, how dumb was I to think people would try to save power if they're sitting in the dark hour after hour.
And cutting the power to the city that is going over their Mega Watt limit? That's just dumb, lets rather just keep the system of cutting everyone's power for 2 - 5 hours per day.

/clears throat

Another thing:

ITS ALREADY BEING DONE!

Eskom tells a city or town what they need to shed (so many MW). Cape Town can be on stage 1 or 0 due to saving power somewhere while everyone else is on stage 2 for example. So blame your municipalities for not offering you this.
 

Keeper

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Messages
23,624
/clears throat

ITS ALREADY BEING DONE!

Eskom tells a city or town what they need to shed (so many MW). Cape Town can be on stage 1 or 0 due to saving power somewhere while everyone else is on stage 2 for example. So blame your municipalities for not offering you this.

This does not sound like my idea.
If it was similar, nobody would ASK their own municipalities to cut off their own cities' power if eskom capacity is low.
Why would anyone sign up for that.

It only works if it's applied over the whole of SA.
 

Animalmother

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Jun 15, 2015
Messages
1
Substantially higher electricity prices is the key!

I know most people are extremely irritated by our current situation but it also begs the question - "Have you actually determined how much load shedding costs you as individual?" Here I am referring to the unintended costs - like spending money on take-aways, going out for dinner, not being able to study and having to find time during the day... I can go on but I know this is different for all people. I won't to propose that ESKOM charge people MORE for electricity but then give those individuals priority/ guaranteed supply. I worked out that I could easy "save" versus load-shedding even if I paid 50% to 100% more for my usage. This does not even include the inconvenience factor... This would further encourage the people that can afford to implement alternative energies (via Solar and wind) to do it! I also find the notion of getting of the grid as idiotic! People should remain part of the grid and become more efficient in how and when they use the grid for power - a kind of producing consumer or "prosumer". I would gladly pay more for power and in this way I would subsidise the lower end consumers that have basic needs while ensuring that I have supply! Our electricity cost is still below many countries in the world and we have had this benefit for many years! Some people for more than 50! It is time we all stand together and make this country work. We should also keep in mind that when electricity is expensive everyone are incentivized to look for alternatives and adjust our habits - if it remains "cheaper" there is a disincentive for the largest users to build their own supply or change user habits!
 

richjdavies

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Sep 9, 2013
Messages
2,100
Keeper -- your idea is to group people up to city level and then load-limit the group.

I think Eskom are already doing this; the groups are slightly different, but that is the way it is currently done. That is ultimately what load shedding is!?

Ok - it's not exactly the same, but basically Eskom tell's big user 1 (be that SASOL or City of Cape Town) -- cut your load by 10%.
The user then says... hmm... ok, I'll do that by shutting off 10% of my users. They don't have to do it that way, it's completely up to them. That's why City Power Joburg is starting to roll out the other way --> load limiting individual customers.

Ultimately though, you only need to do this a little bit with big users (EIUG - 40 companies using huge amounts of power... vs households using < 30%) for it to have an impact. But those big users have big sway - and already have load limiting like you describe.

So yes - great idea - so good it's already being done :D -- you just need to get your municipality to do what they need to do to implement it at a local level. Be that ripple relays, additional generation (like Western Cape & Joburg bringing plants back online etc.). Unfortunately, you're idea of mob-justice doesn't work, because the city has NO idea who is using what when (at most they go read your meter once per month!)... and nor do most people!
 

Kosmik

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Sep 21, 2007
Messages
25,659
Paragraphs, use them.

And no, higher tarrif is NOT going to solve anything.
 

Electric

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Jul 22, 2013
Messages
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Higher tariffs will just mean those that can pay will pay more.
It will do nothing to prevent the massive amount of electricity stolen in this country.
 
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