If not Nuclear Power, then WHAT??

lsuacner

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Now that u mention it, I don't know anyone who's been zapped by radiation. :rolleyes:
I'm being zapped now.. sitting in front of this screen. Behind the pretty letters there is an electron gun shooting electrons at my eyes. My little light bulb on the ceiling is releasing some form of radiation for that matter. When was the last time you went outside? :) Don't know anyone who have died from it though.
 

icyrus

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So what is the absolute worst case scenario for complete incompetence in a modern nuclear power station?
 

Gnome

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Well technically a meltdown which would probably result in the area becoming a nature resort for the next 1000 years... (Basically what Chernobyl is now)
 
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Ou grote

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So what is the absolute worst case scenario for complete incompetence in a modern nuclear power station?
Some complete frikken moron could drop a bolt into the... No wait, what's the chance of that happening?

It's completely safe.:)
 

jab2

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Well technically a meltdown which would probably result in the area becoming a nature resort for the next 1000 years... (Basically what Chernobyl is now)
Well, that is the positive part of the PBMR. It's energy output is heat capped (no ADSL pun intended:p). It cannot overheat as the reaction slows down as it heats up.
 

rwenzori

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You should not benchmark the intelligence of the people who work on these technologies against your own. Compare apples with apples k?
Now if you find what jab posted as pompous, I can only come to the conclusion that you do not have and formal training past matric? So really if you find the use of big words pompous, stfu. It is not always possible to dumb down things so people like you would be able to understand it.
LOL! And you? Your formal training past matric being the 2-day "How To Flog Life Insurance To A Dead Horse" from Liberty Life that qualified you as a ( hem hem!!! ) Financial Consultant!!!

But remember - I am the idiot. Village certified. I wondered how you cottoned on to that so quickly - I figure it takes one to know one!

LOLLERS!
:p:p
 

rwenzori

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Rwenzori, I completely share your worries about human incompetence, negligence or ignorance. Whatever you want to call it. If one however want to sideline all activities where a human being can act in a way that was not intended or would be detrimental to others, we should not even breath, as some people try to do that under water (without bottles). We ban this and do not allow that. Look at the gun laws. It did not help. We have to address human behavior.

I understand your concern, but are your worries not a bit overboard? The chance of dying of a radiation overdose from a nuclear power plant accident is orders of magnitudes smaller than dying in an automobile accident or in Guateng being murdered in your own home.
The differences between cocking up breathing under water and blowing a nuclear plant are vast. There are some capabilities we have as humans that allow us to wreck vast areas of our planet, killing hundreds of thousands, and denying access to thousands of square kilometres. This is not the same as some halfwit firing a gun at someone else.

I don't worry about dying, myself. But rendering for example Cape Town uninhabitable for many centuries is just stupid. Chernobyl is one example. Mayak is another. And if nuclear energy is so important why don't we, as a third world developing nation, use a trusted design? Why do we have to be suckered into the risks and costs of experimentation?

Oooops! Was that a bolt falling?
 

lsuacner

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LOL! And you? Your formal training past matric being the 2-day "How To Flog Life Insurance To A Dead Horse" from Liberty Life that qualified you as a ( hem hem!!! ) Financial Consultant!!!

But remember - I am the idiot. Village certified. I wondered how you cottoned on to that so quickly - I figure it takes one to know one!

LOLLERS!
:p:p
4 year Bcom degree at Potchefstroom.
If Koeberg had a meltdown, it won't affect Cape Town. They may evacuate the place, but CT will continue as if nothing happened, radiation won't affect the people as it will all be contained.
 

rwenzori

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4 year Bcom degree at Potchefstroom.
If Koeberg had a meltdown, it won't affect Cape Town. They may evacuate the place, but CT will continue as if nothing happened, radiation won't affect the people as it will all be contained.
Is that all? In beancounting? From a questionable little provincial university? Which qualifies you to pronounce on nuclear matters?

About Koeberg - just as the radiation does not affect their staff? Why not ask Ron Lockwood, if he is still alive.
:p
 

jetpacman

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Hmm interesting debate. People getting passionate. As far as Koeberg goes Eskom introduced a policy of hiring females and females of colour took preference. Personally I knew some of the people that work there and they aren't the brightest sparks trust me. I'm not being sexist or racist. I am black myself. I know many guys from all races ( black, indian and white) who are highly qualified and very smart but didnt get the job and they are disgruntled. Some of the people who didn't get the jobs had BSc degrees in engineering, but those that did get it had national diplomas in engineering( all went through the same interview process) This coincides with the problems that Eskom has been having in terms of load shedding and bolts in the reactor etc etc.


Eskom realized that their EE plans didn't pan out the way it should have and started looking for suitable people a while ago. There were ads on the radio ( we want project managers etc) . You can't hire people for the sake of doing it in a nuclear power plant. Rather do that somewhere else like in the distribution departments.

Some of the people I have spoken too don't want to disclose too much about the ongoings at Koeberg save to say that somethings are shocking... ( thats from the horses mouth)
 

Syndyre

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Hmm interesting debate. People getting passionate. As far as Koeberg goes Eskom introduced a policy of hiring females and females of colour took preference. Personally I knew some of the people that work there and they aren't the brightest sparks trust me. I'm not being sexist or racist. I am black myself. I know many guys from all races ( black, indian and white) who are highly qualified and very smart but didnt get the job and they are disgruntled. Some of the people who didn't get the jobs had BSc degrees in engineering, but those that did get it had national diplomas in engineering( all went through the same interview process) This coincides with the problems that Eskom has been having in terms of load shedding and bolts in the reactor etc etc.
:eek::eek::eek:

Very worrying.
 

jab2

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There have been a few references to the infamous dropped bolt. Please take note that this bolt was dropped in the turbine and had nothing to do with anything nuclear. It just happens that the steam for the turbine is produced by nuclear energy and not coal or oil. The reactor is in a different building from the turbine.

It's like saying that the use of crude oil for petrol is unsafe, because your car's fan belt broke.
 

jetpacman

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There have been a few references to the infamous dropped bolt. Please take note that this bolt was dropped in the turbine and had nothing to do with anything nuclear. It just happens that the steam for the turbine is produced by nuclear energy and not coal or oil. The reactor is in a different building from the turbine.

It's like saying that the use of crude oil for petrol is unsafe, because your car's fan belt broke.
The reactor and turbine have separate teams involved in maintenance etc. The people on the nuclear side of things have stricter controls, however the overall support structure within Eskom is crumbling due to manpower issues. This can ultimately turn the whole thing pear shaped if the people with the right qualifications aren't hired.
 

rwenzori

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There have been a few references to the infamous dropped bolt. Please take note that this bolt was dropped in the turbine and had nothing to do with anything nuclear. It just happens that the steam for the turbine is produced by nuclear energy and not coal or oil. The reactor is in a different building from the turbine.

It's like saying that the use of crude oil for petrol is unsafe, because your car's fan belt broke.
Not quite. The point is that if a nuclear plant engineer can drop a bolt in the turbine, what is to say he is not going to drop something else, elsewhere? Ask Louis Slotin. Or his ghost.
 

Syndyre

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Is that all? In beancounting? From a questionable little provincial university? Which qualifies you to pronounce on nuclear matters?

About Koeberg - just as the radiation does not affect their staff? Why not ask Ron Lockwood, if he is still alive.
:p
What qualifies you then?
 

rwenzori

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Some of the people I have spoken too don't want to disclose too much about the ongoings at Koeberg save to say that somethings are shocking... ( thats from the horses mouth)
The callous behaviour of the Koeberg management was exposed in Noseweek a few years back. I found this mention at Earthlife ( original I have somewhere in print - much more detailed ):

Koeberg workers lives are at risk, whilst the facility is keeping their medical history a secret and any interrogating the secret is at risk of losing their jobs, pension funds and medical benefits, reveals the Noseweek (February04). Ron Lockwood an ex-electronics technician who in the course of his work at Koeberg nuclear power station risked exposure to radiation from time to time. At his work he was also required to service the camera that monitors the nuclear reactor itself. In June 1996, having been a radiation worker at Koeberg for 15years , he was persuaded by Eskom's offer of a package to take early retirement.

After six years, Ron Lockwood will never have to enjoy his retirement as he is currently looking death in its face suffering from Leukemia secretly kept from him for many years. This is just a glimpse into the reality of destructive operations, the serious risks the workers are required to work under which implicate the ordinary people who are not necessary aware of the deadly dangers of nuclear energy.

Earthlife Africa would like to express a serious concern regarding the risks posed by Koeberg carelessness to the workers. " It appears that there were dishonest and criminally negligent top officials who let this persist right under their noses" said Nosiphiwo Msithweni, community health researcher of Earthlife Africa. Mr. Lockwood was an average worker, who supposedly knew well the dangers of nuclear to human health and to the environment. Despite all that, Koeberg was able to misinform this person and kept secret his medical files and further threatened when he showed reluctance in signing a form that could have lost him his pension funds and medical benefits.
 

rwenzori

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What qualifies you then?
Advanced Diploma in Crap Detection.

To say anything else would reveal too much.
:)

Besides, I make no claims like "they do not get to make the decisions, people like me do because we make the correct decisions"!
 
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Syndyre

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The callous behaviour of the Koeberg management was exposed in Noseweek a few years back. I found this mention at Earthlife ( original I have somewhere in print - much more detailed ):
Wouldn't call Earthlife Africa an objective source though.
 
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