International COVID-19 Updates & Discussion 3

[AdrianH]

First jab was Sunday 21st of Feb, so nine weeks.

They told me 8 to 10, so bang in the middle then

 

[Jake45]

I wonder which antivirals will be chosen? Ivermectin?

Britain will have pills to treat Covid at home 'by the autumn'

The UK Government today announced it will set up a panel of civil servants, scientists and pharmaceutical companies to find pills that could treat Covid before it gets severe.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Dave]

I wonder which antivirals will be chosen? Ivermectin?

Britain will have pills to treat Covid at home 'by the autumn'

The UK Government today announced it will set up a panel of civil servants, scientists and pharmaceutical companies to find pills that could treat Covid before it gets severe.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Highly unlikely to be Ivermectin, it’s been criticised almost universally as a Covid treatment, not to mention it isn’t actually an antiviral...

 

[flytek]

Pyres built on pavements as Covid overwhelms India’s hospitals and crematoriums

The country’s rapidly accelerating coronavirus caseload is yet to peak, with modelling suggesting more than 5,000 deaths a day by next month

www.telegraph.co.uk

Just flu bro

1.5 billion high density people going through the 2nd wave was never going to be pretty. I wonder what the reality in China will be too. Either way both will most likely lose millions of people. Obesity levels will count heavily in their favour one would think.

 

[Geoff.D]

Highly unlikely to be Ivermectin, it’s been criticised almost universally as a Covid treatment, not to mention it isn’t actually an antiviral...

Moreover, the drug is known to exert antiviral activity against RNA viruses, probably by inhibiting the import of host and viral proteins to the nucleus. Regarding COVID-19 treatment, several observational studies, clinical trials, and in vitro studies have shown that ivermectin has the potential to be used as an antiviral medicine against SARS-CoV-2 infection.

 

[Dave]

View attachment 1055901

You missed a little off that theory...

Subsequent studies found that ivermectin could inhibit replication of SARS-CoV-2 in monkey kidney cell culture with an IC50 of 2.2–2.8 μM.[58][59] Based on this information, however, doses much higher than the maximum approved or safely achievable for use in humans would be required for an antiviral effect.[60] Aside from practical difficulties, such high doses are not covered by current human-use approvals of the drug and would be toxic

So, the theory is good, it kills the viruses in a test tube, unfortunately it would kill the human before you consumed enough to do the same in your body.


Maybe you also missed all the bodies who have refused to authorise its use

In March 2021, both the FDA and the European Medicines Agency (EMA) issued guidance that ivermectin should not be used to treat or prevent COVID-19.[74][75] After reviewing the evidence on ivermectin the EMA said that "the available data do not support its use for COVID-19 outside well-designed clinical trials".[75] Ivermectin is not authorized for use to treat COVID-19 within the European Union.[75] In the United Kingdom the national COVID-19 Therapeutics Advisory Panel determined that the evidence base and plausibility of ivermectin as a COVID-19 treatment were insufficient to pursue further investigations.[76] The WHO say that ivermectin should not be used to treat COVID-19 except in a clinical trial.[77]

Maybe you also missed the warning from the makers of Ivermectin, Merck, who also say it’s a bad idea

Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, today affirmed its position regarding use of ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic. Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 for evidence of efficacy and safety. It is important to note that, to-date, our analysis has identified:

• No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies;
• No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and;
• A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.

We do not believe that the data available support the safety and efficacy of ivermectin beyond the doses and populations indicated in the regulatory agency-approved prescribing information.

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1384608711386157056

 

[Geoff.D]

You missed a little off that theory...



So, the theory is good, it kills the viruses in a test tube, unfortunately it would kill the human before you consumed enough to do the same in your body.


Maybe you also missed all the bodies who have refused to authorise its use



Maybe you also missed the warning from the makers of Ivermectin, Merck, who also say it’s a bad idea

You are very very late to the party. See the dedicated IVM threads ..........

 

[Dave]

You are very very late to the party. See the dedicated IVM threads ..........

Nope, I’m quite happy avoiding the looney toons party altogether.

Ivermectin is an idiotic idea as it is a drug that is not designed or suitable for Covid treatment, all the major health bodies say so, as does the manufacturer.

You want to play witch doctor, knock yourself out. Just don’t pretend the mainstream medical opinion is with you...

 

[Geoff.D]

Nope, I’m quite happy avoiding the looney toons party altogether.

Well then stay out of the debate!

Ivermectin is an idiotic idea as it is a drug that is not designed or suitable for Covid treatment, all the major health bodies say so, as does the manufacturer.

You want to play witch doctor, knock yourself out. Just don’t pretend the mainstream medical opinion is with you...

Easy to collect together a string of evidence to support your views. And MERCK is NOT the source of IVM anyway. They just developed and mass-produced the medication and made their name for donating huge quantities for the treatment of river blindness.

Besides, Merck stated that they would rather put their effort into developing new medicine which they are busy with. See the UK document if you don't want to accept what I say.

Now it is early days, but in a leaked, highly suspicious and unsubstantiated document which I can't post there is a view that all Merck is doing is actually adapting IVM to be more effective against Covid 19 .............

Further, go and tell that to the thousands of people already treated in Peru, and now Zim, with IVM that have recovered faster than they would have or even been saved from death that IVM should not have been used in their treatment ..... See how far that will get you.

 

[Dave]

the thousands of people already treated in Peru

The same Peru that has withdrawn the medical authorisation for its use in hospitals? Maybe because it was shown to be useless at safe levels?

 

[Dave]

And MERCK is NOT the source of IVM anyway.

Have you told the WHO that they are wrong?

the manufacturer of ivermectin – Merck & Co., Inc

WHO | Ivermectin

www.who.int

 

[Geoff.D]

The same Peru that has withdrawn the medical authorisation for its use in hospitals? Maybe because it was shown to be useless at safe levels?

The safety of IVM is undisputed at levels for treatment of Covid 19 ----- There are NO deaths and safety concerns when used under the direction of medical professionals. And no, in the IVM thread there is already plenty posted about what led to the government stopping the use of IVM for political reasons NOT because of safety concerns. If you have any alternative information to prove the contrary, please post the sources in the IVM thread as a rebuttal of the existing information as to why IVM treatment was stopped in Peru.

The onus is on YOU to post your evidence or if you don't want to rather stay out of the debate.

 

[Geoff.D]

Have you told the WHO that they are wrong?

WHO | Ivermectin

www.who.int

The WHO is just toeing the current super conservative view. Besides, they moved FROM a position of totally rejecting IVM as a possible treatment (in the same time frame as Merck came up with its story),to "We are neither for nor against", to IVM should only be used as part of a trial. So you really do need to do your homework on the subject one hell of a lot better.

And have YOU told all the doctors in SA that are now using IVM in the treatment of their patients after the court ruling recently that they are WRONG? See how far that is going to get you.
Also, do you have ANY evidence of anyone dying as a result of being treated with IVM under a doctors supervision in SA?

There have been a handful of cases where people self-medicating on the animal version have been treated for overdosing, but NO deaths.

Again if you have any contrary evidence of deaths in SA or anywhere for that matter, produce it or stay out of the debate.

After all, it is a loony debate anyway?

 

[Dave]

The safety of IVM is undisputed at levels for treatment of Covid 19

Dont be silly, all the health authorities state the opposite. A dose that could theoretically kill the virus in a human would be toxic to that human.

The WHO, the EMA, the FDA, the UK TAP, Merck have all said it’s not a COVID treatment, only a bunch of idiots in SA and now to a lesser extent in South America think it’s a worthwhile treatment. While you take your Ivermectin you should go and ask your local witch doctor for his special potion as well.

Sorry, this may be blunt, but anyone taking medication specifically warned against by the medical authorities of the civilised world is just plain stupid. You want to take it, take it, but don’t pretend what you’re doing isn’t stupid.

You want some more warnings?

Key regulators warn against ivermectin against Covid-19​

Leading health authorities have consistently recommended against using ivermectin to treat coronavirus.

The FDA’s position is that the widely available drug is not approved for use against Covid-19 in the US, and the agency said it had received multiple reports of people who have “required medical support and been hospitalised after self-medicating with ivermectin intended for horses”. The European Medicines Agency has said the available data does not support the drug’s use for Covid-19 “outside well-designed clinical trials”, and the World Health Organisation also concluded that ivermectin should only be used to treat the virus in a clinical trial setting.

The drug’s manufacturer, pharma giant MSD, also warned that its analysis of ivermectin identified “no scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against Covid-19 from pre-clinical studies”, “no meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with Covid-19 disease” and “a concerning lack of safety data” in most studies.

The pro-ivermectin campaign has taken a particularly strong hold in South Africa, where coronavirus infection rates are among the worst in the continent and the vaccination programme has yet to cover all of the country’s most vulnerable. Some doctors have been prescribing the worm drug to Covid-19 patients, claiming anecdotally that it alleviates virus symptoms, despite the South African Health Products Regulatory Authority (SAHPRA) warning against its use. Ivermectin is also thriving on the country’s black market, where one tablet can sell for as much as R500 (£25), and sales of veterinary forms of the drug have skyrocketed.

In Latin America, widespread recommendation of the antiparasitic was largely based on findings in a now-retracted preprint by health analytics company Surgisphere, which fell into disrepute after its Covid-19 data was found to be largely unreliable. Though Peru reversed its inclusion of ivermectin in national coronavirus treatment guidelines following the scandal, several other countries in the region continue to recommend it.
Latin America has some of the worst Covid-19 death rates in the world, and widespread poverty has been exacerbated by the pandemic. With vaccination programmes slow to roll out in parts of the region, it’s unsurprising that people are anxious to find inexpensive ways to tackle the virus, even if the clinical evidence backing its use is slim.

Until the ongoing research on ivermectin can determine its antiviral potential and safety profile with certainty, people desperate to protect themselves will continue to self-medicate with dangerous quantities and forms of the drug. But that doesn’t mean approving it is the answer.

The ivermectin debate has highlighted the disparity in access to Covid-19 vaccines and treatments for low- and middle-income countries. The consequences of global healthcare inequality are clear: if life-saving vaccines aren’t available, people will be driven to take matters into their own hands – with potentially catastrophic results.

Ivermectin and Covid-19: how a cheap antiparasitic became political

The common antiparasitic ivermectin is being touted as a miracle Covid-19 cure worldwide, despite health authorities consistently warning against its use.

www.pharmaceutical-technology.com

 

[Dave]

The WHO is just toeing the current super conservative view. Besides, they moved FROM a position of totally rejecting IVM as a possible treatment (in the same time frame as Merck came up with its story),to "We are neither for nor against", to IVM should only be used as part of a trial. So you really do need to do your homework on the subject one hell of a lot better.

And have YOU told all the doctors in SA that are now using IVM in the treatment of their patients after the court ruling recently that they are WRONG? See how far that is going to get you.
Also, do you have ANy evidence of anyone dt=ying as a result of being treated with IVM under a doctors supervision in SA?

THere have been a handful of cases where people self-medicating on the animal version have been treated for overdosing, but NO deaths.

Again if you have any contrary evidence of deaths in SA or anywhere for that matter, produce it or stay out of the debate.

Jesus, now it’s not only the Ivermectin crap, it’s also a conspiracy theory that the WHO are now “toeing a super conservative view”.



Nope, I’m not arguing with this stupidity anymore.

Go take your Ivermectin, be sure to wash it down with bleach...

 

[Temujin]

 

[Dave]

And have YOU told all the doctors in SA that are now using IVM in the treatment of their patients after the court ruling recently that they are WRONG? See how far that is going to get you.
Also, do you have ANY evidence of anyone dying as a result of being treated with IVM under a doctors supervision in SA?

There have been a handful of cases where people self-medicating on the animal version have been treated for overdosing, but NO deaths.

Again if you have any contrary evidence of deaths in SA

One last reply.

This is the international thread, Ivermectin is almost universally warned against internationally, this thread isn‘t for discussion of thoughts on your SA usage of witch doctor remedies, bleach or ivermectin.

Can I suggest you take all that discussion to the SA Covid discussion thread.

 

[Geoff.D]

Dont be silly, all the health authorities state the opposite. A dose that could theoretically kill the virus in a human would be toxic to that human.

The WHO, the EMA, the FDA, the UK TAP, Merck have all said it’s not a COVID treatment, only a bunch of idiots in SA and now to a lesser extent in South America think it’s a worthwhile treatment. While you take your Ivermectin you should go and ask your local witch doctor for his special potion as well.

Sorry, this may be blunt, but anyone taking medication specifically warned against by the medical authorities of the civilised world is just plain stupid. You want to take it, take it, but don’t pretend what you’re doing isn’t stupid.

You want some more warnings?

Ivermectin and Covid-19: how a cheap antiparasitic became political

The common antiparasitic ivermectin is being touted as a miracle Covid-19 cure worldwide, despite health authorities consistently warning against its use.

www.pharmaceutical-technology.com

In the post, YOU quote you MISSED the keywords - (SELF MEDICATION WITH IVM USED FOR ANIMALS
HORSES).
And YOU consistently avoid taking note of my words, taking IVM in the control of a health professional.

As I said stay out of the debate.

 

[Geoff.D]

One last reply.

This is the international thread, Ivermectin is almost universally warned against internationally, this thread isn‘t for discussion of thoughts on your SA usage of witch doctor remedies, bleach or ivermectin.

Can I suggest you take all that discussion to the SA Covid discussion thread.

Well, YOU made a big deal out of it. I suggested YOU move your comments to the IVM thread.