International COVID-19 Updates & Discussion 3

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Dave

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As I said stay out of the debate.

You can go take a running jump, who do you think you are ordering who can post or not post? Piss off with your delusions of grandeur.


Well, YOU made a big deal out of it. I suggested YOU move your comments to the IVM thread.

Rather you take your stupid notions of ivermectin to your ivermectin thread where all the desperate types in SA as well as the conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers and other nut jobs can circle jerk over that nonsense.
 

Geoff.D

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You can go take a running jump, who do you think you are ordering who can post or not post? Piss off with your delusions of grandeur.




Rather you take your stupid notions of ivermectin to your ivermectin thread where all the desperate types in SA as well as the conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers and other nut jobs can circle jerk over that nonsense.
Ditto to you. YOU started the fight, not me. Now I know why you were on my ignore list for more than a year. Back you go.
 

Markd

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Jesus, now it’s not only the Ivermectin crap, it’s also a conspiracy theory that the WHO are now “toeing a super conservative view”.



Nope, I’m not arguing with this stupidity anymore.

Go take your Ivermectin, be sure to wash it down with bleach...

dude Geoff has done ALL the research, isn't carrying the burden of producing any evidence around why South American countries have stopped using Ivermectin (it was a change in president! Said some rando in a video). Somehow the evidence that is out there for the world to see is good enough for Geoff, but not good enough for just about every major health body. But he's been debating this a long long time now and like, if you havent, then dont start because he's already refuted your logic many times before. Something like that....
 

Geoff.D

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dude Geoff has done ALL the research, isn't carrying the burden of producing any evidence around why South American countries have stopped using Ivermectin (it was a change in president! Said some rando in a video). Somehow the evidence that is out there for the world to see is good enough for Geoff, but not good enough for just about every major health body. But he's been debating this a long long time now and like, if you havent, then dont start because he's already refuted your logic many times before. Something like that....
Move the debate to the IVM, thread, provide evidence to support your views. That is all, not some article that has NO links or evidence just lots of hearsay and interpretations. Virtually nothing from the source.
And besides. it is a doctor in Zim and doctors in SA that are supporting the use of IVM as a treatment NOT as a preventative measure. AND, I and most of those on the IVM thread, have repeatedly made the point that we support the use of IVM (and ANY medication for that matter) given as a treatment for covid under the supervision of a health professional. NOT self-medication with products used for animals.
So criticise us as much you like BUT get your facts right and support your views with evidence, not hearsay based on some or other article.
 

Dave

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dude Geoff has done ALL the research, isn't carrying the burden of producing any evidence around why South American countries have stopped using Ivermectin (it was a change in president! Said some rando in a video). Somehow the evidence that is out there for the world to see is good enough for Geoff, but not good enough for just about every major health body. But he's been debating this a long long time now and like, if you havent, then dont start because he's already refuted your logic many times before. Something like that....

Aah, now I understand, it all makes sense when you put it like that.

:p
 

Geoff.D

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I wonder which antivirals will be chosen? Ivermectin?
Here are a few quotes out of that article that are of interest, just to show things have changed since this whole saga started:

Most research so far has focused on saving hospital patients and there are currently no at-home therapies for the infection that are routinely used by the NHS. People who aren't severely ill are generally told to rest and take paracetamol or ibuprofen.

Remember when doctors INCLUDING the WHO, recommended no one takes Ibuprofen? Funny that the WHO changes its views to suit the prevailing wind.
Anyone want to guess what my second cousin who tested positive and is at home at the moment is being prescribed?
4 courses so far of antibiotics! - Tell me how that makes sense, plus Cortisone - another standard in SA it seems, plus Paracetamol.

Antibiotics are supposed to only work against bacteria? Or are we to believe that without any proof whatsoever, that it is okay to prescribe antibiotics to treat Covid 19, but it is not okay to use a known antiviral medication normally used to treat parasites?

asthma steroid budesonide could cut people's recovery time by three days if they used a £15 inhaler twice a day. Medical chiefs said there wasn't enough evidence to make it the standard care but GPs can take it upon themselves to prescribe it to older patients.

At least the regulator does not try and prevent doctors in the UK from trying and prescribing other medication!

They are committed to finding 'novel antiviral medicines'. 'This means, for example, that if you test positive there might be a tablet you could take at home to stop the virus in its tracks and significantly reduce the chance of infection turning into more severe disease. Or if you're living with someone who has tested positive, there might be a pill you could take for a few days to stop you getting the disease yourself.'

Sir Patrick Vallance, Britain's chief scientific adviser, added: 'Antivirals in tablet form are another key tool for the response.

'They could help protect those not protected by or ineligible for vaccines. They could also be another layer of defence in the face of new variants of concern.
A very good idea and encouraging to see that at least one country is not completely sold on the Vaccine "Silver Bullet" idea. And that is why I am interested in other medications such as IVM - I cannot get the vaccine as recommended by my doctor! - Severe negative reaction to all vaccines including Penicillin.

Molnupiravir, made by the pharmaceutical firms Merck and Ridgeback Biotherapeutics, 'continues to show promise as a potential treatment for non-hospitalised patients,' the companies said after their second phase study. They decided it was not effective for seriously ill people after testing it in hospitals.

A repurposed flu medication.

Ritonavir and lopinavir, drugs developed to treat HIV, are also being trialled on coronavirus patients in the UK. They have been in studies throughout the pandemic and results have been conflicting, but trials are still recruiting

Does anyone know of trials in SA using the above? After all, a lot is said about the prevalence of HIV in SA and how a huge part of the population is at risk of contracting Covid 19 as a result?? The above suggests that there is a chance that they are actually not at much risk because of their HIV treatments?


US company Romark is trying to get US approval for its antiviral drug NT-300, made using a chemical called nitazoxanide, which it said trials showed could cut the risk of severe disease by up to 85 per cent.

Romark is still doing late-scale human trials of the drug and already uses a slightly different version of it treat parasitic illnesses.

Now there is a thing, another anti-parasitic being used for possible treatment of Covid 19?

BUT, but, you can't use an anti-parasitic as an antiviral! Where is the proof that it works???

We know that over 22,000 lives have already been saved in the UK from the use of dexamethasone.

But, but how many have continued to claim that Dexamethasone does NOT work against Covid 19!

'New or repurposed drugs should first be carefully evaluated in small studies which establish safety and look for signs of efficacy. Only those drugs which appear to be safe and efficacious should then be progressed to larger studies looking at clinical endpoints such as hospitalisation or death.

And then out comes the normal conservative crap, "we have to undertake double triple-blind trials before we can make any recommendations and approve of drug X!" Meanwhile thousands die while regulators ad others dither and dather!

Still a good read and interesting article with FACTS not full of hearsay rubbish about real efforts being made. Fascinating to see how studiously though, IVM is not even mentioned hey!
 
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noxibox

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Ivermectin is an idiotic idea as it is a drug that is not designed or suitable for Covid treatment, all the major health bodies say so, as does the manufacturer.
Not suitable perhaps. That it wasn't specifically designed to treat COVID-19 would be irrelevant.
 

Geoff.D

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India only attributes a death to COVID where there are no comorbidities apparently. So if you had diabetes and got COVID, then you died from your diabetes and not from COVID. So yes, their number on deaths appear to be VERY undercounted.
That is assuming people who die in India even know what their comorbidities are. And how many deaths are properly analysed and cause established before burial/cremation?

The Indian stats are just completely meaningless. Have you come across any attempt at "excess deaths" analysis for India anywhere by any chance?
 

pinball wizard

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India only attributes a death to COVID where there are no comorbidities apparently. So if you had diabetes and got COVID, then you died from your diabetes and not from COVID. So yes, their number on deaths appear to be VERY undercounted.
So, they actually do it properly. I heard rumours about all these Indians being good at maths and stuff.
 
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India only attributes a death to COVID where there are no comorbidities apparently. So if you had diabetes and got COVID, then you died from your diabetes and not from COVID. So yes, their number on deaths appear to be VERY undercounted.

Ah ha. Yes, considering they have 1.3 billion people and the government doesn't the same degree of power as the Chinese government, I thought their death count has looked a bit low, even taking into account the relatively youthful population in India compared to the US and Western Europe. It's also likely their current number of infections is in the millions rather than the official number of between 250k-300k per day.
 

pinball wizard

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Funny story, the entire UAE Emirates team and staff were vaccinated earlier this year and yet:

UAE Team Emirates have been ruled out of La Flèche Wallonne after Diego Ulissi and a staff member tested positive for COVID-19 on the eve of the race.


In a statement on Wednesday morning, UAE Team Emirates said that Ulissi and the staff member had since returned repeated negative tests but the team of Tadej Pogačar and defending champion Marc Hirschi will not participate in La Flèche Wallonne

So, is the test wrong or the vaccine pointless?
 

Geoff.D

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Funny story, the entire UAE Emirates team and staff were vaccinated earlier this year and yet:



So, is the test wrong or the vaccine pointless?
Neither. A vaccine DOES NOT prevent infection as so many believe or try to propagate. Vaccines at best, only prevent serious infection to the point where no symptoms will manifest BUT the infection will still be detected by a PCR test.

At worst, we all hope that a vaccine will prevent serious illness, hospitalisation and death.
 

Gordon_R

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Neither. A vaccine DOES NOT prevent infection as so many believe or try to propagate. Vaccines at best, only prevent serious infection to the point where no symptoms will manifest BUT the infection will still be detected by a PCR test.

At worst, we all hope that a vaccine will prevent serious illness, hospitalisation and death.

Oh dear, you have been posting so much BS this week, that I put you on Ignore.

All of the vaccines have a moderately high efficacy, which prevents any kind of infection (even with a PCR test). There is emerging evidence (UK and Israel) that they are also better than expected at reducing population transmission. Vaccines are extremely useful, the challenge is rolling them out.
 

Geoff.D

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Oh dear, you have been posting so much BS this week, that I put you on Ignore.

All of the vaccines have a moderately high efficacy, which prevents any kind of infection (even with a PCR test). There is emerging evidence (UK and Israel) that they are also better than expected at reducing population transmission. Vaccines are extremely useful, the challenge is rolling them out.
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-d...munization-what-is-vaccination?adgroupsurvey={adgroupsurvey}&gclid=CjwKCAjwmv-DBhAMEiwA7xYrdzjRLLGkLqcruk8kX52B1wXwzYEfORdEB2Bt9DLDSCa_7ad5cHjX-xoCu6QQAvD_BwE

Vaccination is a simple, safe, and effective way of protecting people against harmful diseases, before they come into contact with them. It uses your body’s natural defenses to build resistance to specific infections and makes your immune system stronger.

Vaccines train your immune system to create antibodies, just as it does when it’s exposed to a disease. However, because vaccines contain only killed or weakened forms of germs like viruses or bacteria, they do not cause the disease or put you at risk of its complications.

Vaccines reduce risks of getting a disease by working with your body’s natural defenses to build protection. When you get a vaccine, your immune system responds. It:

  • Recognizes the invading germ, such as the virus or bacteria.
  • Produces antibodies. Antibodies are proteins produced naturally by the immune system to fight disease.
  • Remembers the disease and how to fight it. If you are then exposed to the germ in the future, your immune system can quickly destroy it before you become unwell.
The vaccine is therefore a safe and clever way to produce an immune response in the body, without causing illness.


After vaccination, if the body is later exposed to those disease-causing germs, the body is immediately ready to destroy them, preventing illness.
 
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