International COVID-19 Updates & Discussion 3

[Geoff.D]

What I meant was two-fold:
1. A year ago many of us thought the vaccine would bring an end to the pandemic. Now it's clear that seems never likely to happen.

I did not. I posted against this stupid notion from the first time it appeared in print, and especially after some leading experts in SA were pushing this BS into MSM. It took quite a while before some sort of alignment with reality was reached. Long term yes, it may be that vaccines are shown to directly prevent infection but so far the evidence is very limited.

2. The UK is trying to lift social restrictions, right in the middle of the 3rd wave a pandemic.
The fact that the Health Minister became infected symbolises these two points.

Yes, that part of your post is quite ironic and spot on.

 

[Dave]

A year ago nobody knew how these vaccines would work

Of course, no one had any idea that a virus vaccine wouldn’t work a similar way to other virus vaccines already in use.

Of course not, Gordon and all the experts he follows from YouTube and Facebook know best how it all works


gotcha…

 

[Dave]

Yes, that part of your post is quite ironic and spot on.

but is it really? The govt here has been pushing a ”live with it” line and making it known that cases might be climbing but deaths aren’t. That’s the basis for the lifting of restrictions. You aren’t ever going to contain covid with lockdowns, just slow it a bit and allow the medical services space and time to prepare, with so many people vaccinated that danger to the health service is minimised.

 

[Dave]

@Geoff.D

This is what Johnson said about lifting the restrictions, trying to somehow link Javid getting a mild infection is a bit silly. It’s not like the government here declared Covid over and therefore was lifting the restrictions.

'Thanks to the successful rollout of our vaccination programme, we are progressing cautiously through our road map,' Mr Johnson said.

'But I must stress that the pandemic is not over and that cases will continue to rise over the coming weeks. As we begin to learn to live with this virus, we must all continue to carefully manage the risks from Covid and exercise judgment when going about our lives.'

Boris Johnson declares it's time to live with Covid

The Prime Minister will use a press conference to confirm a bonfire of rules and restrictions from July 19, in which he will say that individuals will again be able to judge the risks for themselves.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Gordon_R]

@Geoff.D

This is what Johnson said about lifting the restrictions, trying to somehow link Javid getting a mild infection is a bit silly. It’s not like the government here declared Covid over and therefore was lifting the restrictions.

Boris Johnson declares it's time to live with Covid

The Prime Minister will use a press conference to confirm a bonfire of rules and restrictions from July 19, in which he will say that individuals will again be able to judge the risks for themselves.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The story is important, because of transmission not just infection. Under UK law, those in close contact must go into isolation:

Covid: PM and chancellor not isolating after Javid test

Labour questions the "VIP testing" regime allowing them to work after Sajid Javid tested positive.

www.bbc.com

Ministers and officials are waiting to find out if they will have to self-isolate after Health Secretary Sajid Javid tested positive for coronavirus.

It is understood Mr Javid had a meeting with the prime minister on Friday, hours before he started feeling unwell.

But as of late Saturday night, Boris Johnson had not been tracked down as a close contact by NHS Test and Trace.

 

[R13...]

The story is important, because of transmission not just infection. Under UK law, those in close contact must go into isolation:

Covid: PM and chancellor not isolating after Javid test

Labour questions the "VIP testing" regime allowing them to work after Sajid Javid tested positive.

www.bbc.com

Yeah the need to isolate even after vaccination is a bit of an issue. If the chances of hospitalisation and severe illness are so low they really must review it. Suppose there's an ethical question even at such low risks but it doesn't look like this affects the economy and health care as much as unvaxxed.

 

[surface]

What I meant was two-fold:
1. A year ago many of us thought the vaccine would bring an end to the pandemic. Now it's clear that seems never likely to happen.
2. The UK is trying to lift social restrictions, right in the middle of the 3rd wave a pandemic.
The fact that the Health Minister became infected symbolises these two points.

I have no medical background but I know that most of the medical doctors in my extended family were of opinion that a annual booster is a possibility. I have kept some of those whatsapp messages that I received last mid-year.

 

[Gordon_R]

I have no medical background but I know that most of the medical doctors in my extended family were of opinion that a annual booster is a possibility. I have kept some of those whatsapp messages that I received last mid-year.

It's a bit of an esoteric subject, but the real question is whether the booster can be the same vaccine as before, or another choice of the existing vaccines, or whether a new vaccine needs to be developed for each variant. It will require a lot of data gathering to make sense of this, and a long and hard process ahead.

For the record, I was one of the first in the queue in SA for the 50+ age group at the beginning of July. Protect yourself, because nobody else is going to protect you...

 

[Gordon_R]

Yeah the need to isolate even after vaccination is a bit of an issue. If the chances of hospitalisation and severe illness are so low they really must review it. Suppose there's an ethical question even at such low risks but it doesn't look like this affects the economy and health care as much as unvaxxed.

And the rules just changed again:

Covid: PM and chancellor not isolating after Javid test

Labour questions the "VIP testing" regime allowing them to work after Sajid Javid tested positive.

www.bbc.com

Downing Street is among 20 private and public sector organisations - including Network Rail, Transport for London and Border Force - taking part in a pilot where close contacts of Covid cases take daily tests.

 

[Geoff.D]

Yeah the need to isolate even after vaccination is a bit of an issue. If the chances of hospitalisation and severe illness are so low they really must review it. Suppose there's an ethical question even at such low risks but it doesn't look like this affects the economy and health care as much as unvaxxed.

Again this is the silly part about the understanding of how the virus spreads and how getting a vaccine changes the way the virus spreads.

 

[Geoff.D]

It's a bit of an esoteric subject, but the real question is whether the booster can be the same vaccine as before, or another choice of the existing vaccines, or whether a new vaccine needs to be developed for each variant. It will require a lot of data gathering to make sense of this, and a long and hard process ahead.

For the record, I was one of the first in the queue in SA for the 50+ age group at the beginning of July. Protect yourself, because nobody else is going to protect you...

Yes if you are able to get the jab get it. But don't think that because you have got the jab you won't pick up the virus and won't get infected and won't be able to spread it. It does not work like that. All that you get at the moment is a reduced risk of getting very sick an possibly dying.

 

[Cage Rattler]

Average person is clueless about the infection mortality rate, probably the same in this country .... from today's The Weekend Australian newpaper: "Research company True North tested perceptions of the virus this week and found that two-thirds of respondents (67 per cent) believed the Indian, or Delta, virus was both more contagious and more deadly than earlier strains – the reality is that it is more contagious but less deadly (only 26 per cent got that right). The survey also asked respondents to rate their chances of dying if they were infected with the Delta variant. Older respondents rated the risk slightly higher, and the young a little lower, but the average response was an astonishing 38 per cent."

 

[Geoff.D]

Average person is clueless about the infection mortality rate, probably the same in this country .... from today's The Weekend Australian newpaper: "Research company True North tested perceptions of the virus this week and found that two-thirds of respondents (67 per cent) believed the Indian, or Delta, virus was both more contagious and more deadly than earlier strains – the reality is that it is more contagious but less deadly (only 26 per cent got that right). The survey also asked respondents to rate their chances of dying if they were infected with the Delta variant. Older respondents rated the risk slightly higher, and the young a little lower, but the average response was an astonishing 38 per cent."

And that shows how ineffective MSM has been in informing the general population out there with the correct information

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

And the rules just changed again:

Covid: PM and chancellor not isolating after Javid test

Labour questions the "VIP testing" regime allowing them to work after Sajid Javid tested positive.

www.bbc.com

They have now reversed this decision -- whoever is giving Boris advice, it's very poor. You need to at least "give the impression" that there is not one rule for the rulers and another for the wider population. So many people are already pissed off they have to self-isolate in the UK although I'd just delete the stupid NHS app to avoid being pinged.

 

[Geoff.D]

They have now reversed this decision -- whoever is giving Boris advice, it's very poor. You need to at least "give the impression" that there is not one rule for the rulers and another for the wider population. So many people are already pissed off they have to self-isolate in the UK although I'd just delete the stupid NHS app to avoid being pinged.

Yup the same as the local SA one. Never installed the damn thin in the first place.
Another stupid application of technology that very quickly gets abused by authority for their own ends.

 

[Nanfeishen]

And that shows how ineffective MSM has been in informing the general population out there with the correct information

If only Politicians would lead and stop playing doctor, and let doctors stick to medicine instead of playing politics while the MSM stop its fear mongering to improve their ratings.
This whole debacle should and could have been handled far better than it has been.

 

[Dave]

And the rules just changed again:

Covid: PM and chancellor not isolating after Javid test

Labour questions the "VIP testing" regime allowing them to work after Sajid Javid tested positive.

www.bbc.com

They have now reversed this decision -- whoever is giving Boris advice, it's very poor. You need to at least "give the impression" that there is not one rule for the rulers and another for the wider population.

It was announced as a rule change some weeks ago, but was announced as only effective 16th August, possibly that caused the confusion.

Double-jabbed contacts won’t need to self-isolate from 16 August, says Javid

Close contacts of people in England who test positive will not have to self-isolate if they have had both vaccinations

www.theguardian.com

 

[Gordon_R]

It was announced as a rule change some weeks ago, but was announced as only effective 16th August, possibly that caused the confusion.

Double-jabbed contacts won’t need to self-isolate from 16 August, says Javid

Close contacts of people in England who test positive will not have to self-isolate if they have had both vaccinations

www.theguardian.com

In the meantime business and industry may be left in chaos due to pre-emptive isolation:

Covid: 'Pingdemic' threatens shop openings say supermarkets

M&S says it may have to reduce opening hours if more workers are forced to self-isolate.

www.bbc.com

The British Retail Consortium (BRC), which represents the industry, said that the government must bring forward the changes on self-isolation from 16 August "so that people who are fully vaccinated or have a negative test are not forced to needlessly quarantine" when they are contacted by the app.

 

[Rosaudio]

Here's another fantastic graphic from the FT..

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

The clowns may still be being clowns but the UK is in a far off better position than where the constant criticism (and almost hoping to fail) is coming from. It's weird