International COVID-19 Updates & Discussion 3

Lupus

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What if you test positive for covid, hospitalized for 3 weeks, test negative, go home, then go back to hospital and die? Is that covid or not?
Not actually sure my MIL death cert just said natural causes. Though she had COVID months ago, her death was caused by it sadly
 

Lupus

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The Primary Cause of Death Is Natural or Unnatural.
Then it depends on what the clinicians (and if backed up by an autopsy) record as secondary causes and presumably in order of significance.

The above situation is precisely why the SAMRC took on the task of doing a preliminary analysis of deaths.
Most of the time on natural they don't really do autopsies.
 
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I actually need to check my aunt's death certificate.

Unfortunately, her cancer came back but she also caught covid while in the hospital (this was during the peak of the third wave in the Western Cape).

If they put covid on the death certificate, I will be absolutely furious.
 

Lupus

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I actually need to check my aunt's death certificate.

Unfortunately, her cancer came back but she also caught covid while in the hospital (this was during the peak of the third wave in the Western Cape).

If they put covid on the death certificate, I will be absolutely furious.
It will be natural or unnatural
 

Daveogg

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It will be natural or unnatural
Its a little more complicated, a lot more data is collected around a death than reflects on the "death certificate" that the family receives. A death is often not a isolated event, but usually a chain of events that leads to the death. Part G of the death cert tries to define this chain of events - what is unclear to me is what is the bar that covid needs to pass in this chain of events to be classified as a covid death.?
Ill post a death certificate form to give more clarity.
 

Daveogg

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This may help explain the death certificate, Natural Vs Non - Natural, Cause, Underlying Cause, Other significant conditions etc
 

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  • CODcertificationguideline (1).pdf
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Geoff.D

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This may help explain the death certificate, Natural Vs Non - Natural, Cause, Underlying Cause, Other significant conditions etc
Yes, that is what you have to get hold of. And you can ask for a copy of it for a relative. IT should also form part of the documents in the file for winding up the estate of someone.

The death certificate only records the main cause.
 

Daveogg

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Interesting, as I guessed a 28 day cut off actually will miss a lot of covid deaths as the slow deterioration into respiratory failure will extend longer than 28 days.
 

Geoff.D

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Interesting, as I guessed a 28 day cut off actually will miss a lot of covid deaths as the slow deterioration into respiratory failure will extend longer than 28 days.

I have tried to find out where this magical 28-day figure comes from. It makes no damn sense whatsoever but it is all over the place as if it is a natural law of the universe.
 

Lupus

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I have tried to find out where this magical 28-day figure comes from. It makes no damn sense whatsoever but it is all over the place as if it is a natural law of the universe.
It's twice 14 so therefore it's 28.
 

Paulsie

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Its a little more complicated, a lot more data is collected around a death than reflects on the "death certificate" that the family receives. A death is often not a isolated event, but usually a chain of events that leads to the death. Part G of the death cert tries to define this chain of events - what is unclear to me is what is the bar that covid needs to pass in this chain of events to be classified as a covid death.?
Ill post a death certificate form to give more clarity.
What is your take on the vaccine, the temporary reduction of immunity and getting infected within those 1-2 weeks. Vaccine caused or not?

Disclaimer: not trying to ambush you here, just honestly looking for an opinion (as you know I tend to respect yours). Think chemo / lower immunity /gets sick = chemo induced illness.

Why are all infections within 1-2 weeks counted as unvaccinated and would they occur otherwise?
 

Daveogg

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What is your take on the vaccine, the temporary reduction of immunity and getting infected within those 1-2 weeks. Vaccine caused or not?

Disclaimer: not trying to ambush you here, just honestly looking for an opinion (as you know I tend to respect yours). Think chemo / lower immunity /gets sick = chemo induced illness.

Why are all infections within 1-2 weeks counted as unvaccinated and would they occur otherwise?
Hi Paulsie.
We know physiological stress temporarily inhibits your innate immunity. The simplest example of this is increased risk of resp tract infections post a bout of intense or extended exercise. Also probably infection related to travel across time zones and perhaps infection after cold exposure are more likely as a result of temporary immunity inhibition.

Could vaccines do the same, logic would suggest yes. Obviously the higher the incidence of Covid in the community the greater would be the effect.
Perhaps now is the perfect time to get vaccinated ;-)
 

Geoff.D

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Perhaps now is the perfect time to get vaccinated ;-)
Like many other processes, the best time to take action is before it becomes a crisis.

And if we believe the 28-day window, then it makes sense to take even more precautions against exposure to the virus for 28 days after a jab. And if that is accurate, then the best time for a jab is when the general infection is at its lowest which is now. But we have an election in 9 days --- cutting it fine. If ever there is a super spreader event in the making, it is standing in a queue waiting to vote.
 

flytek

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So if vaccines cause a lowered immunity does it not follow that many covid cases as well as many deaths were caused by said lowered immunity?
Many lives were saved too but this claim of nearly zero vaccine related deaths becomes exceptionally suspicious.
If in SA you need to be double jabbed for more than two weeks or even a month before it is even begun to be concidered a death of a vaccinated person then those stats are suspicious too.
 

tetrasect

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If you're not a tax payer then I suppose so

Pfizer have made billions out of the "free" vaccine
And how much does being infected with Covid cost?

What is your take on the vaccine, the temporary reduction of immunity and getting infected within those 1-2 weeks. Vaccine caused or not?

Disclaimer: not trying to ambush you here, just honestly looking for an opinion (as you know I tend to respect yours). Think chemo / lower immunity /gets sick = chemo induced illness.

Why are all infections within 1-2 weeks counted as unvaccinated and would they occur otherwise?

Unfortunately we do not have immunity against Covid to begin with, that's what the vaccines are for.

The vaccine only becomes fully effective after 3 weeks, that's why anything before that is counted as unvaccinated.

If you get infected before the vaccine takes effect, then by what exact logic is that infection caused by the vaccine?

Infection occurs through contact with other infected people, not by the vaccine.
 
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