International COVID-19 Updates & Discussion 3

Paulsie

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Unfortunately we do not have immunity against Covid to begin with, that's what the vaccines are for.

The vaccine only becomes fully effective after 3 weeks, that's why anything before that is counted as unvaccinated.

If you get infected before the vaccine takes effect, then by what exact logic is that infection caused by the vaccine?

Infection occurs through contact with other infected people, not by the vaccine.
Lower immunity (once acquired) vs lowered immune response (the ability to mount defense). There's a difference.
 

Geoff.D

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And how much does being infected with Covid cost?



Unfortunately we do not have immunity against Covid to begin with, that's what the vaccines are for.

The vaccine only becomes fully effective after 3 weeks, that's why anything before that is counted as unvaccinated.

If you get infected before the vaccine takes effect, then by what exact logic is that infection caused by the vaccine?

Infection occurs through contact with other infected people, not by the vaccine.
The point being made is:

IF the vaccine causes your immune system to become more vulnerable in the 14-28 days after a jab,
and IF you are then exposed to the virus in that period and become infected
THEN the vaccine is indirectly responsible for you getting infected before the vaccine has had a chance to start the process of getting your immune system to develop antibodies.

It is a hypothesis that cannot easily be refuted or I imagine proved either.
 

Ghost64

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Still lots of people dying of thrombosis and pneumonia post covid. Some had covid in June, never fully recovered, died in August.
 

Paulsie

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The point being made is:

IF the vaccine causes your immune system to become more vulnerable in the 14-28 days after a jab,
and IF you are then exposed to the virus in that period and become infected
THEN the vaccine is indirectly responsible for you getting infected before the vaccine has had a chance to start the process of getting your immune system to develop antibodies.

It is a hypothesis that cannot easily be refuted or I imagine proved either.
Thank you. I did not have the energy to type all the for someone being purposefully obtuse.
 

NoLuck Chuck

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Another hypothesis: would early exposure to a weakened SARS-COV-2 virus variant have given a stronger immune response against a more virulent Delta variant?
I use the example of Vietnam only because it was mentioned earlier in this thread.
Early lockdown, limited exposure; then suddenly an explosion in terms of cases and deaths, presumably caused by Delta.

Any thoughts?
 

tetrasect

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The point being made is:

IF the vaccine causes your immune system to become more vulnerable in the 14-28 days after a jab,
and IF you are then exposed to the virus in that period and become infected
THEN the vaccine is indirectly responsible for you getting infected before the vaccine has had a chance to start the process of getting your immune system to develop antibodies.

It is a hypothesis that cannot easily be refuted or I imagine proved either.
Pretty easy to refute because it makes no logical sense.

If you get exposed to the virus before getting the vaccine, you will be infected.
If you get exposed to the virus 7 days after the vaccine you will most likely also be infected (but you will already have more antibodies than you did before the vaccine).
If you get exposed to the virus more than 21 days after the vaccine, you will have a 90 something percent chance that you will not be infected.

You can't blame the vaccine for you getting infected, that's just dumb. That's like saying "jack daniels is responsible" for the fact that your body hurt when you ran into a wall, directly after downing a bottle of bourbon, instead of waiting 15 minutes for it to kick in.
 

tetrasect

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Another hypothesis: would early exposure to a weakened SARS-COV-2 virus variant have given a stronger immune response against a more virulent Delta variant?
I use the example of Vietnam only because it was mentioned earlier in this thread.
Early lockdown, limited exposure; then suddenly an explosion in terms of cases and deaths, presumably caused by Delta.

Any thoughts?

You mean like... a vaccine...?
 

Lupus

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Another hypothesis: would early exposure to a weakened SARS-COV-2 virus variant have given a stronger immune response against a more virulent Delta variant?
I use the example of Vietnam only because it was mentioned earlier in this thread.
Early lockdown, limited exposure; then suddenly an explosion in terms of cases and deaths, presumably caused by Delta.

Any thoughts?
So you mean a vaccine?
 

BBSA

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U.S. health officials are keeping a close eye on an emerging Covid-19 subvariant, dubbed “delta plus,” that some scientists say may be more contagious than the already highly transmissible delta variant.

Formally known as AY.4.2, delta plus includes two new mutations to the spike protein, A222V and Y145H, which allow the virus to enter the body. Those mutations have been found in other Covid variants, so it’s unclear how dramatically those changes affect the virus.

Francois Balloux, director of the Genetics Institute at University College London, said it could be 10%-15% more contagious than delta, which first appeared in India and spreads easier than Ebola, SARS, MERS and the 1918 Spanish flu, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

 

ajax

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What is your take on the vaccine, the temporary reduction of immunity and getting infected within those 1-2 weeks. Vaccine caused or not?

Disclaimer: not trying to ambush you here, just honestly looking for an opinion (as you know I tend to respect yours). Think chemo / lower immunity /gets sick = chemo induced illness.
According to the UK Health Security agency's COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report Week 42 on page 23 they state:
recent observations from UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) surveillance data that N antibody levels appear to be lower in individuals who acquire infection following 2 doses of vaccination.
(I got wind of this from Alex Berenson, former NYT reporter)

In a letter to the editor of the Journal of Infection the authors write about a study of 4000 hospital workers. They measured antibody response following vaccination. For the breakthrough cases they write:

Notably, only 6/23 (26%, 95%CI: 11–49) had detectable anti-N antibodies in response to their infection
Whereas for those who contracted Covid before vaccination they write:
compared to 663/812 (82%, 95%CI: 79–84, p-value= <0.001 (Chi-squared) of all participants in the study with previous PCR-confirmed infection having detectable anti-N antibodies.
They do state that more research is needed:
Whilst our numbers are small, even in large seroprevalence studies numbers of breakthrough infections will be small and further research of individuals with well-defined vaccine breakthrough infections are required.
 

PsyWulf

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If this is true and if it is indeed where this whole Covid-saga is headed, then it is indeed one sad leap for mankind.
Which part is sad? Being excluded from societal participation for choices detrimental to society? Or did they have a valid reason to not have vaccination done I missed somewhere (other than "because")
 

NoLuck Chuck

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Which part is sad? Being excluded from societal participation for choices detrimental to society? Or did they have a valid reason to not have vaccination done I missed somewhere (other than "because")
Lithuania has had and still have a very successful vaccination campaign.
They will have reached their own target for "herd immunity" by now.
So it is unnecessary for such Draconian actions.
 

PsyWulf

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Lithuania has had and still have a very successful vaccination campaign.
They will have reached their own target for "herd immunity" by now.
So it is unnecessary for such Draconian actions.
Ah so you're saying they are close to fully vaccinated

So the draconian measures wouldn't exclude the general populace from activities,just fringes that refuse vaccination?

Thanks for clearing that up,I assumed it was a significant portion that would be affected based on the uproar the tweets are trying to create
 
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