International COVID-19 Updates & Discussion 3

Paulsie

Expert Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2020
Messages
2,860
You can't blame the vaccine for you getting infected, that's just dumb. That's like saying "jack daniels is responsible" for the fact that your body hurt when you ran into a wall, directly after downing a bottle of bourbon, instead of waiting 15 minutes for it to kick in.
Yes, but if JD can temporarily soften your skull, you are likely to get hurt far more than if you had hit the wall while not drunk.
 

Daveogg

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2003
Messages
1,741
Another hypothesis: would early exposure to a weakened SARS-COV-2 virus variant have given a stronger immune response against a more virulent Delta variant?
I use the example of Vietnam only because it was mentioned earlier in this thread.
Early lockdown, limited exposure; then suddenly an explosion in terms of cases and deaths, presumably caused by Delta.

Any thoughts?
Yes some thoughts:
Where did you get delta is more virulent? I see a general decrease in case fatality as the waves progress.
What about the example of Italy?
 

The Voice

Honorary Master
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
12,589
Lithuania has had and still have a very successful vaccination campaign.
They will have reached their own target for "herd immunity" by now.
So it is unnecessary for such Draconian actions.
Their population is under 3mil people. For context, that's less than half of the Western Cape's. It's probably a lot easier for them get so few people vaccinated.
 

tetrasect

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
3,369
Yes, but if JD can temporarily soften your skull, you are likely to get hurt far more than if you had hit the wall while not drunk.

Except it doesn't.

Vaccines may lower your immunity against things like flu and cold because those are things you actually have immunity against. It does not lower your immunity against Covid, because you don't have immunity against Covid.
 

Paulsie

Expert Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2020
Messages
2,860
Except it doesn't.

Vaccines may lower your immunity against things like flu and cold because those are things you actually have immunity against. It does not lower your immunity against Covid, because you don't have immunity against Covid.
It lowers the mounting of a p
response of immune system to an attack. When weakened, it cannot "spring to action" as readily as it normally would.
 

Daveogg

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2003
Messages
1,741
It lowers the mounting of a p
response of immune system to an attack. When weakened, it cannot "spring to action" as readily as it normally would.
Ok let me clarify, I did use the correct terms on my initial reply but perhaps it has been missed.
Broadly speaking your immune system is divided into innate and adaptive immunity.

Adaptive is the antibodies and cells that respond to a specific antigen and requires pre-exposure. So the antibodies to Spike as a result of vaccination or prior infection is an adaptive response.

Innate immunity is a system whereby non-specific antigens are recognized and destroyed by macrophages, NK cells etc. This is the aspect of the immune system which can be inhibited by physiological stress ( mediated via cortisol ).
The effects of this immune suppression post vaccination would in my guess be quite short lived - days not weeks.
 

nivek

Executive Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Messages
9,949
And how much does being infected with Covid cost?
It never cost me much, the small amounts I spent on paracetamol was cancelled out by my lack of appetite and not eating for 10 days
So it was probably a net saving ;)

But that aside, if you haven't had covid, getting vaccinated is a good idea. My problem is with putting pressure on people to get vaccinated after having recovered when there's no real, clear, non-WHO sourced data that says it offers any additional protection against dying or severe illness

Who benefits more from vaccinating those that have already recovered? Pfizer, or the individual?
 
Last edited:

Geoff.D

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
24,692
Yes some thoughts:
Where did you get delta is more virulent? I see a general decrease in case fatality as the waves progress.
What about the example of Italy?
It depends on how the term "more virulent" is understood and interpreted. Especially in MSM. I have found the term being used to describe Delta not only more likely to make you sick and die but to also include more infectious.
If only the definition (the medical one) can be stuck to......
 

Geoff.D

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
24,692
Except it doesn't.

Vaccines may lower your immunity against things like flu and cold because those are things you actually have immunity against. It does not lower your immunity against Covid, because you don't have immunity against Covid.
IFF you have not been infected before. Without a test of some sort most of us don't know if we got infected, showed no symptoms and recovered.
 

NoLuck Chuck

Senior Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
824
Ah so you're saying they are close to fully vaccinated

So the draconian measures wouldn't exclude the general populace from activities,just fringes that refuse vaccination?

Thanks for clearing that up,I assumed it was a significant portion that would be affected based on the uproar the tweets are trying to create
Quite easy to find official figures.
Population ~ 2.6m+
Vax doses ~ 3.2m+

So vaccine uptake is not a problem, so why this heavy-handesness, providing the situation in the tweet is indeed true.
 

NoLuck Chuck

Senior Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
824
Yes some thoughts:
Where did you get delta is more virulent? I see a general decrease in case fatality as the waves progress.
What about the example of Italy?
It's been widely suggested that the emergence of Delta has been the cause of sudden spikes in cases and the increase in mortality rate, more so than any other variant.
I haven't had a look at Italy.
 

PsyWulf

Honorary Master
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
12,508
Quite easy to find official figures.
Population ~ 2.6m+
Vax doses ~ 3.2m+

So vaccine uptake is not a problem, so why this heavy-handesness, providing the situation in the tweet is indeed true.
Yeah see thats answering...but not answering...

Where's the heavy handedness that a large chunk of the population are being affected and discriminated against?
Or is your issue with a place that actually enforces things (quite a few countries have similar in fact) compared to South Africa?

Once again - strict enforcement that only impedes the few unvaccinated is not a gigantic disaster for human rights and liberties
 

NoLuck Chuck

Senior Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
824
Yeah see thats answering...but not answering...

Where's the heavy handedness that a large chunk of the population are being affected and discriminated against?
Or is your issue with a place that actually enforces things (quite a few countries have similar in fact) compared to South Africa?

Once again - strict enforcement that only impedes the few unvaccinated is not a gigantic disaster for human rights and liberties
I've never mentioned: large chunk of the population are being affected and discriminated against?
That's your bit you lumped in there.

strict enforcement that only impedes the few unvaccinated is not a gigantic disaster for human rights and liberties
Not "gigantic" to you, but still an abuse and totally unnecessary.
 

PsyWulf

Honorary Master
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
12,508
I've never mentioned: large chunk of the population are being affected and discriminated against?
That's your bit you lumped in there.
Nah,implication of discrimination and segregation by the totalitarian state is that a significant portion of people are affected and had no choice in the matter,freedoms curtailed and they could not change the outcome - i've been trying to get you to clarify your stance on the matter

strict enforcement that only impedes the few unvaccinated is not a gigantic disaster for human rights and liberties
Not "gigantic" to you, but still an abuse and totally unnecessary.
Ah alright,so it's not a big issue affecting lots of people,but it is a big enough issue because the choices of a small group of people have consequences for those people

Got ya

So,freedom of choice means they should have freedom from consequences of those choices
Like Seatbelt laws,drunk driving,etc. Why should my choices have consequences
 

access

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
12,516
Yes some thoughts:
Where did you get delta is more virulent? I see a general decrease in case fatality as the waves progress.
What about the example of Italy?

indeed, stuff ive seen says it appears to be more transmissible but less virulent.

which was said in the media before lockdowns is the natural evolution of coronaviruses.
 

Temujin

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
13,269
Once again - strict enforcement that only impedes the few unvaccinated is not a gigantic disaster for human rights and liberties
Pretty sure you've plagiarised the words of Hitler, Stalin, Pot, Mugabe, Xi Jinping and rest of your heros here:ROFL:
 
Top