International COVID-19 Updates & Discussion 3

[Dave]

Here is a thing. With the majority of populations in Europe having been vaccinated, would you not expect for the TOTAL number of infections to be lower than when lower % of population were vaccinated?

No, I'd expect the total number of deaths to drop, maybe also serious infections leading to hospitalisation but not infections in total.

 

[Dave]

which was BS

I'm sure that was actually just everything you've written about Covid, the vaccine and ivermectin....

 

[Paulsie]

but not infections in total.

Why not?? Surely vaccines provide at least some protection from infection?? When the majority of population is vaccinated, surely the infection rate should be lower than during Pre vaccination levels?

 

[Paulsie]

By the way, a blast from the past...

COVID: Angela Merkel says no plans for mandatory vaccines in Germany

www.msn.com

Merkel said "We are still a long way off" to meet the vaccine quota needed to stop new aggressive variants.

Still, Merkel stressed that COVID jabs will remain voluntary in Germany.

"There will be no compulsory vaccination," the chancellor said, adding that this could break people's trust.

No plans for ‘divisive’ vaccine passports for Canadians, Trudeau says - National | Globalnews.ca

The idea of a vaccine or immunization passport has already been touted as a means to travel and return to public areas by businesses and countries across the world.

globalnews.ca

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says his government has no plans to implement vaccine passports — proof that a person has been vaccinated against the virus — on a federal level for Canadians.


According to Trudeau, standardizing such a measure could have “real divisive impacts” for Canada and its communities.

 

[PsyWulf]

No, I'd expect the total number of deaths to drop, maybe also serious infections leading to hospitalisation but not infections in total.

- Every uninformed idiot

 

[Temujin]

 

[Forum Reader]

Why not?? Surely vaccines provide at least some protection from infection?? When the majority of population is vaccinated, surely the infection rate should be lower than during Pre vaccination levels?

It should but countries tend to go back to business as usual when their vaccination levels are high which makes more people come into contact with each other which results in more spreading. So you can't really compare case levels to the past when there was more social distancing and lockdowns. All you can do is compare hospitalizations and deaths vs number of cases.

 

[Dave]

Why not?? Surely vaccines provide at least some protection from infection?? When the majority of population is vaccinated, surely the infection rate should be lower than during Pre vaccination levels?

Paul, for what feels like the millionth time, the vaccine doesn't stop ALL infection, it makes them less likely and if you are infected the infection is less severe and lasts for a shorter time.

Try and remember this time, repeat after me, the vaccine doesn't prevent all infection.

 

[Daveogg]

Why not?? Surely vaccines provide at least some protection from infection?? When the majority of population is vaccinated, surely the infection rate should be lower than during Pre vaccination levels?

Hey Paulsie, here is how I understand it. The Rt of Delta was put at 4-8 from what I remember. Let's put it at 4. Let's assume after some months vaccination reduces infection by 50%. We had hoped it would be more but so be it. That's going to put the Rt at 2, still very much pandemic numbers. If you added social distancing, masking etc, you may get the Rt below 1 but if you see how Europe has opened up since vaccination my understanding is the benefit of the non pharmaceutical measures have been lost by the overconfidence in the benefit of vaccination for infection.
The question is whether the benefit against severe infection, hospitalisation etc holds up despite the numbers. If so we are still good. If not it's back to the drawing board.

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...vaccinations-COMPULSORY-unavoidable-move.html

 

[tetrasect]

Here is a thing. With the majority of populations in Europe having been vaccinated, would you not expect for the TOTAL number of infections to be lower than when lower % of population were vaccinated?

Yes, unvaccinated are getting more infected as a %within their group, but since they are now such a small group, the overall numbers should be much lower.

Because number of contacts between people without wearing masks is insanely bigger after they scrapped the lockdown regulations.

So even though most people are completely immune, the ones who are not are far, far more likely to bump into someone who is infected than when they were sitting at home or social distancing with their mask on.

 

[tetrasect]

The virus does not care -- it invades everyone it comes into contact with. IF the vaccines really offered the promised protection against infection (which was BS from the outset) then that would have been a realistic expectation.

The fact is whether you are vaccinated or not you get infected almost equally.

Now that is absolute BS.

The danger for me lies in the false sense of security so many vaxxed people seem to have - many think they are now invincible and don't need to take precautions.

Most of them are. As we have seen it takes a good 6 months for protection against infection to wane to 50%.

 

[Paulsie]

- Every uninformed idiot

You're like a boil that won't go away.

Watch and learn...

Hey Paulsie, here is how I understand it. The Rt of Delta was put at 4-8 from what I remember. Let's put it at 4. Let's assume after some months vaccination reduces infection by 50%. We had hoped it would be more but so be it. That's going to put the Rt at 2, still very much pandemic numbers. If you added social distancing, masking etc, you may get the Rt below 1 but if you see how Europe has opened up since vaccination my understanding is the benefit of the non pharmaceutical measures have been lost by the overconfidence in the benefit of vaccination for infection.
The question is whether the benefit against severe infection, hospitalisation etc holds up despite the numbers. If so we are still good. If not it's back to the drawing board.

Because number of contacts between people without wearing masks is insanely bigger after they scrapped the lockdown regulations.

So even though most people are completely immune, the ones who are not are far, far more likely to bump into someone who is infected than when they were sitting at home or social distancing with their mask on.

 

[Geoff.D]

So even though most people are completely immune,

Total rubbish! No one is "completely immune"!

 

[tetrasect]

Total rubbish! No one is "completely immune"!

Well when you have an army of antibodies and T-cells swarming through your veins you're about as immune as you'll ever be.

 

[Geoff.D]

huh?

View attachment 1197798

View attachment 1197800

Here is a plot of the Rt value for Gibraltar. It would seem the higher the vaccination percentage goes the more uncertain and erratic the Rt value becomes.



The indicates to me that even if the vaccines are preventing serious illness and deaths, the vaccines are definitely having almost no effect whatsoever on infection rates. This means the vaccines are doing next to nothing to get this pandemic under control, just driving the virus underground and increasing the numbers of people carrying and spreading the virus asymptomatically.

 

[Defonotaltaccount]

Tinfoil hats are removable.
Spiked proteins ?
Not so much.
Good luck on your journey !
We will learn a lot.
Thank you for your service !

 

[Paulsie]

The indicates to me that even if the vaccines are preventing serious illness and deaths, the vaccines are definitely having almost no effect whatsoever on infection rates. This means the vaccines are doing next to nothing to get this pandemic under control, just driving the virus underground and increasing the numbers of people carrying and spreading the virus asymptotically.

Apparently down to 20% and counting. I have seen this figure quoted elsewhere as well.

Loading…

www.healio.com

Effectiveness gradually waned thereafter, then dropped after the fourth month to reach about 20% in the fifth through seventh months, according to the researchers.
These findings suggest that a large proportion of the vaccinated population could lose its protection against infection in the coming months, perhaps increasing the potential for new epidemic waves,” Chemaitelly and colleagues wrote.

The findings conflict with other data published earlier this week in The Lancet, which showed that the effectiveness of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine declined to 47% (95% CI, 43–51) 5 months after administration of the second dose among a larger cohort of Americans.

 

[tetrasect]

Tinfoil hats are removable.
Spiked proteins ?
Not so much.
Good luck on your journey !
We will learn a lot.
Thank you for your service !

You will learn a lot. Here is your first lesson:

The spike proteins get destroyed within a week or two by the antibodies you produce.

Good luck on your journey !
Thank you for your service !

 

[Dave]

Tinfoil hats are removable.

Not if you're someone like @Geoff.D who might use a kilo of superglue to attach it to his head...