International COVID-19 Updates & Discussion 3

Paulsie

Expert Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2020
Messages
1,670
Very interesting article about some of the dodgy test results in the UK. Especially concerning is that this involves the 'gold standard' PCR tests and not the recently introduced rapid tests.

Instead, we should approach each case from every angle, as we were taught at medical school.

Where appropriate we should carry out tests, but only in the context of symptoms, the date they first emerged, a history of recent contacts and any pre-existing medical conditions.

Human bodies are not machines, after all. We’re far more complex.

I believe that Britain’s new-found testing mania is a retreat from properly conducted clinical medicine as well as from common sense. And that we are witnessing a triumph of herd thinking – an expensive one at that.
And that's all half of us here are posting about each day, every day
 

Grant

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
51,745
Correction, regardless of who owns what, who's in coalition with whom, people were free to read or people were free to go.
More importantly though, people were free to post comments regardless of how politically incorrect, insensitive or offensive they were. Other people were free to read, ignore or chose note to visit ZH at all. That is true freedom and that is is what Google put a stop to.
All websites that look to derive income revenue via Google have restrictions placed on them, including mybb.

From what I can make out, you only seem to post in the covid section.
News & Current Affairs is heavily moderated - entire threads being locked or deleted, members getting warnings or being banned.
ZH is not alone in this, they too are free to look elsewhere for revenue, but if they want to be paid by Google, then unfortunately Google calls the shots.
 

Gordon_R

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
16,029
So even well-run & wealthy countries like Germany are struggling....very harsh restrictions compared to SA. Just shows the futility of it all.


- All non-essential shops closed
- No indoor dining
- No fireworks
- No alcohol

For those who prefer not to read the Daily Mail:
 

Lupus

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Messages
31,422
Very interesting article about some of the dodgy test results in the UK. Especially concerning is that this involves the 'gold standard' PCR tests and not the recently introduced rapid tests.

Sigh yet it seems to keep people in fear, oh no there have been thousands of new cases, than it's like how many died? So called recovered??
 

Lupus

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Messages
31,422
So even well-run & wealthy countries like Germany are struggling....very harsh restrictions compared to SA. Just shows the futility of it all.


- All non-essential shops closed
- No indoor dining
- No fireworks
- No alcohol
What will fireworks do?
Also this sounds exactly like what we had in April.
 

Paulsie

Expert Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2020
Messages
1,670
Our back is against the wall,” Moon said. “This is a crucial moment to devote all our virus control capabilities and administrative power to stopping the coronavirus spread.”

Level 3 curbs would essentially mean a lockdown for the first time in Asia’s fourth-largest economy. Schools would switch to remote learning, companies could allow only essential workers in offices and gatherings of more than 10 people would be banned.
Things are not looking great for one of the world's covid darlings
 

MiW

Expert Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
2,229

Things are not looking great for one of the world's covid darlings
1607875612429.png
I see, in a mids of winter and high 'flu' season, they are managing pretty well.
 

MiW

Expert Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
2,229
All I see is that the country that has "done all the right things" and has done so well the whole year is looking at doing a hard lockdown for the first time?
Because they still want to do well? Good for them!
They are considering closing the schools in the worse case scenario. Half EU had closed schools around Feb-March , because of Flu season (and it was flu, not covid , with kids getting in hospital). Its not a novel concept.
 

Paulsie

Expert Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2020
Messages
1,670
Because they still want to do well? Good for them!
They are considering closing the schools in the worse case scenario. Half EU had closed schools around Feb-March , because of Flu season (and it was flu, not covid , with kids getting in hospital). Its not a novel concept.
So the moral of the story is that, regardless of what you do, how well you social distance, whether all population wears masks, you cannot escape lockdowns.
 
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Messages
33,915
So the moral of the story is that, regardless of what you do, how well you social distance, whether all population wears masks, you cannot escape lockdowns.

Yeah, it's a relative thing, unfortunately. Look how quickly NZ locked down again for a few weeks when they had like 20 new cases lol. Or when that pizza worker lied in Adelaide, Australia, so the Premier put the whole state under lockdown for 6 days.
 

Lupus

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Messages
31,422
Yeah, it's a relative thing, unfortunately. Look how quickly NZ locked down again for a few weeks when they had like 20 new cases lol. Or when that pizza worker lied in Adelaide, Australia, so the Premier put the whole state under lockdown for 6 days.
Yup, though it's seeming more and more that the true statement of when you're actively looking for something you're going to find it.
I mean if PCRs are picking up dead viruses of up to 80 days, and they've been mentioning this since June but it seems to fall on deaf ears.
 

noxibox

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
20,118
They can make PCR more likely not to flag dead virus. Doing so increases the chance of missing current infections. It's fine to err on the side of getting inflated positive numbers though as long as you're not misusing those numbers.

Testing everyone is a bad idea. Far too many false positives when doing so.

I remember way back the justification for the lockdowns was to spread the cases out not eliminate them. There were all those graphs they used to make their argument. There was all the talk of how just as many people would get sick, but not all at once.

Another notable aspect of the current infections is that in many areas the death rate is not showing the same upward trend. Is this a better understanding of the right treatment? Is increased testing catching cases that would have been missed 6 months ago?
 

Lupus

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Messages
31,422
They can make PCR more likely not to flag dead virus. Doing so increases the chance of missing current infections. It's fine to err on the side of getting inflated positive numbers though as long as you're not misusing those numbers.

Testing everyone is a bad idea. Far too many false positives when doing so.

I remember way back the justification for the lockdowns was to spread the cases out not eliminate them. There were all those graphs they used to make their argument. There was all the talk of how just as many people would get sick, but not all at once.

Another notable aspect of the current infections is that in many areas the death rate is not showing the same upward trend. Is this a better understanding of the right treatment? Is increased testing catching cases that would have been missed 6 months ago?
Well if this thing is also picking up dead viruses, up to 80 days old, that's almost 3 months of possible positivitiy. I mean the person could've had this back in September, but now being flagged as positive.
 

MiW

Expert Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
2,229
And how long you going to take it for, life?

Serious side effects​



  • Pain in your neck and back
  • Serious eye problems. Symptoms can include:
    • redness
    • bleeding
    • swelling
    • pain
    • loss of vision
  • Shortness of breath
  • Inability to control urination
  • Inability to control bowel movements
  • Trouble standing or walking
  • Confusion
  • Extreme tiredness
  • Extreme drowsiness
  • Seizures
  • Coma
  • Low blood pressure, especially when you get up after sitting or lying down. Symptoms can include:
    • lightheadedness
    • dizziness
    • fainting
  • Severe skin reactions. Symptoms can include:
    • severe rash
    • redness
    • blistering skin
    • peeling skin
  • Liver damage. Symptoms can include:
    • tiredness
    • nausea
    • vomiting
    • loss of appetite
    • pain on the right side of your stomach
    • dark urine
    • yellowing of your skin or the whites of your eyes
  • For pregnant women:Ivermectin is a category C pregnancy drug. That means two things:
    1. Research in animals has shown adverse effects to the fetus when the mother takes the drug.
    2. For seniors: Your liver may not work as well as it used to. This can cause your body to process drugs more slowly. As a result, more of this drug can stay in your body for a longer time. This raises your risk of side effects.
 

noxibox

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
20,118
Well if this thing is also picking up dead viruses, up to 80 days old, that's almost 3 months of possible positivitiy. I mean the person could've had this back in September, but now being flagged as positive.
It's been acknowledged by those in the testing field that it was originally tuned to maximise true positives and minimise false negatives. Experts in PCR have said they can adjust it to minimise picking up fragments as an active infection. So the issue isn't PCR as such, but the way it is being used. That made sense earlier when it was assumed, rightly or wrongly, that infections were just getting started and the point of the test was to make sure almost no true positives were missed, so that information could be used to nip it in the bud. Now they still seem to be operating on the assumption that there aren't plenty of prior undetected infections.

In South Africa they're making a big fuss about 8000 new cases, but conveniently fail to highlight a jump in tests, almost to the peak level in July, yet yielding a much lower number of positive results. This type of thing is being repeated in many places.
 
Top