Introduction to Islam

Status
Not open for further replies.

Grant

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
47,909
Prawns & Crayfish

wayfarer, prawns & crayfish - halal or haram ?

i was always under the impression that these are haram, yet i often see muslims eating them in restaurants.
my understanding that they are haram is:
1) they are invertebrates
2) they feed off dead & decaying matter (carrion - which is itself prohibited)

can you shine a little light here
 

wayfarer

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
1,623
wayfarer, prawns & crayfish - halal or haram ?
Thanks for asking about Islamic dietary practices, Grantza :)

"Lawful to you is game from the sea and its food as provision for you and the travelers..." (Quran 5:96)

A man asked the Prophet Muhammad, “O Prophet of God, we travel on the sea and take a small quantity of fresh water with us. If we use this for ablution, we would suffer from thirst. Can we perform ablution with seawater (i.e. is it pure enough for ritual ablution before prayer)? The Prophet replied; its water is pure and what dies in it (of sea creatures) is lawful food.” (Hadith)

There are 4 schools of Islamic practice/law in mainstream Islam, namely Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i and Hanbali, all of which recognise each other as authentic/valid. In South Africa, the overwhelming majority of Muslims adhere to the Shafi'i school.

The Maliki, Shafi'i and Hanbali jurisprudence on seafood
The Maliki, Shafi'i and Hanbali view all seafood as permissible (halal) for consumption, while some Maliki scholars traditionally objected to the consumption of eels.

The Hanafi jurisprudence on seafood
Hanafi scholars permit the consumption of fish, but differ among themselves on the consumption of other sea creatures, such as crustaceans. Most Hanafi scholars exclusively allow fish. Traditionally, prawns were considered a "fish", as linguistically, prawn is linked to fish in the Arabic language, and thus many earlier jurists permitted it. Later zoological evidence points to the contrary, and many Hanafi scholars now prohibit it.

i was always under the impression that these are haram, yet i often see muslims eating them in restaurants.
my understanding that they are haram is:
1) they are invertebrates
Vertebrate status is not applicable to sea creatures. Mammals are generally permissible for consumption, besides dogs, pigs, cats and other predatory mammals who "attack with fangs". Birds that have talons (such as birds of prey and vultures) are prohibited (haram). Other birds are permissible.

2) they feed off dead & decaying matter (carrion - which is itself prohibited)
Carrion is impermissible for human consumption (other than the carrion of fish and locusts), but animals that may feed on carrion (such as ostriches, or chicken which may have carrion in its diet) may still be halal to eat. A great many species of fish may also feed on carrion, and this would not make it impermissible.
 
Last edited:

Grant

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
47,909
Who is "we" in the Quran

Questions, question and more.

Many verses use the term "we", as in "we created the earth . . . ."
It is my understanding that in Islam, like christianity, God, or Allah alone, created the earth.

Who is the "we" in the above ?
 

wayfarer

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
1,623
God's pronouns when referring to Himself

Questions, question and more.

Many verses use the term "we", as in "we created the earth . . . ."
It is my understanding that in Islam, like christianity, God, or Allah alone, created the earth.

Who is the "we" in the above ?
"And your God is one God; there is no god but He! He is the Compassionate, the Merciful." (Quran 2:163).

"Say: He, God, is One. God is He on Whom all depend, while He is absolutely independent. He begets not (offspring), nor is He begotten (of any parents); And none is like Him."(Quran 112:1-4).​

Hey there Grantza, peace to you, as well as the blessings of God, and His mercy!

Thank you for the question, and please do not let me wait long for the next one ;)

In the Quran (which is entirely God's speech), God refers to Himself in the singular 1[SUP]st[/SUP] person as "I", in the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] person as "He" (the masculine pronoun is just a convention, as God has no gender in Islam - He transcends gender), and as "We" using the royal plural (wiki link). This certainly does not imply plurality of person - rather it suggests a quality of high office or majesty. If a king may refer to Himself as "We", does the King of kings not have a right to do so? In the Quran, God would sometimes mix these pronouns in a single verse.

The "royal we" practice is also found in the Christian Bible. However, some Christians maintain that the Bible is not using the "royal we", but is denoting the plurality of person in the Trinity. While Christians are trinitarian monotheists, Muslims are unitarian monotheists. Therefore, the term "We" in the Quran can only be understood to mean the "royal we".

Examples of God using the equivalent of "I" in the Quran:

"And when My servants ask you about Me, then surely I am near. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he cries unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright." (Quran 2:186)

"But indeed, I am the Perpetual Forgiver of whoever repents and believes and does righteousness and then continues in guidance." (Quran 20:82)

Examples of God using "He":

"[He is] Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you from yourselves, mates, and among the cattle, mates; He multiplies you thereby. There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearer, the Seer." (Quran 42:11)

"Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah . Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful."(Quran 39:53)

Examples of God using the royal we:
"And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds." (Quran 21:107)

“We have constructed the universe with might and We are expanding it.” (Quran 51:47)

A Christian source:
“Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image...” (Genesis 1:26)
 
Last edited:

Mineer

Expert Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
3,194
Sadly I got beaten to the punch by wayfare, but I think I gotten beaten for the better. I simply would have asked you to look up Nosism since I am on my cell at the moment.
 

Hamish McPanji

Honorary Master
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
39,841
What do you feel is the correct method of determining the new month in Islam. As a secularly educated Muslim, I always find it a bit odd as to how my cousins and in laws in the UK celebrate Ramadhan and Eid on different days every year. They live less than 2km away from each other.

I just read this : http://moonsighting.com/hijri-calendar.html#mess

To me, a lot of it makes sense, but my brother disagrees
 

falcon786

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Messages
9,971
What do you feel is the correct method of determining the new month in Islam. As a secularly educated Muslim, I always find it a bit odd as to how my cousins and in laws in the UK celebrate Ramadhan and Eid on different days every year. They live less than 2km away from each other.

I just read this : http://moonsighting.com/hijri-calendar.html#mess

To me, a lot of it makes sense, but my brother disagrees
Very interesting and makes sense because we know the whole world can only physically be in one date but would we then use new Zealand as the start of that date/day also and according to Islamic principles why would we do that?

I'm also keen to see the counter argument against this though.
 

isie

Honorary Master
Joined
Jan 16, 2010
Messages
11,546
What do you feel is the correct method of determining the new month in Islam. As a secularly educated Muslim, I always find it a bit odd as to how my cousins and in laws in the UK celebrate Ramadhan and Eid on different days every year. They live less than 2km away from each other.

I just read this : http://moonsighting.com/hijri-calendar.html#mess

To me, a lot of it makes sense, but my brother disagrees
Quite a few countries prefer to follow the astronimical calculation route rather then the Actual moon sighting route -
Back in the old days my gramps was telling me :) - we had a similar issue where JNB would have eid one day and Capes and Durbs would on another day - Similar to your cousin in laws you would have brothers celebrating differently.
This led to the different Ulemas deciding that they will agree on something (for a change) and formed UUCSA (United Ulema Council of SA) the few things they agree with is on the moon sighting - since then they will discuss among them regarding the sightings and we get to celebrate one Eid.

TBH I think he only reason we still work on the sighting (except the Sunat aspect) is the actual Maan kakers of the cape - its quite an experience if you ever in signal hill waiting for the moon to be seen.
 

upup

Executive Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2009
Messages
6,770
in welkom they are going to struggle to see any moon, it's raining. They should ask google if they can go ahead. Or go to Jupiter with it's nine moons.
 

tRoN

Executive Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2007
Messages
6,157
in welkom they are going to struggle to see any moon, it's raining. They should ask google if they can go ahead. Or go to Jupiter with it's nine moons.
Troll-o-loll-olol-olol...
 

tRoN

Executive Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2007
Messages
6,157
Quite a few countries prefer to follow the astronimical calculation route rather then the Actual moon sighting route -
Back in the old days my gramps was telling me :) - we had a similar issue where JNB would have eid one day and Capes and Durbs would on another day - Similar to your cousin in laws you would have brothers celebrating differently.
This led to the different Ulemas deciding that they will agree on something (for a change) and formed UUCSA (United Ulema Council of SA) the few things they agree with is on the moon sighting - since then they will discuss among them regarding the sightings and we get to celebrate one Eid.

TBH I think he only reason we still work on the sighting (except the Sunat aspect) is the actual Maan kakers of the cape - its quite an experience if you ever in signal hill waiting for the moon to be seen.
I agree with using the astronomical data as it is more useful for our current situation.

I don't see the muezzin every evening looking at the horizon before giving the maghrib adhan. He uses a calendar based on astronomical data provided beforehand.

It's really frustrating not to be able to make plans if one is not sure which date it is.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top