Introduction to Islam

Splinter

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Was that a yes or no on the "do you need further clarification" part?
Yes. I need further clarification on my original question :)

Look, you chaps can try and bury the original question with antagonistic posts all you want - I will just bring it up again.
 

isie

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Oh, is this the new tactic? Trying for an infraction? Trying to limit my right to search for the truth? :)

Edit - you will see the questions posed again.
and i answered it.

Here


None of us as mentioned many times before are Allah or can make judgements on his behalf. No matter how many good or bad deeds you do in life the decision for a person to enter heaven is up to Allah

The below is a parable i remember that sums up exactly what you are asking
There was a man who had murdered 99 people.

He went to a learned man and told him about his past, explaining that he wished to repent, reform, and become a better person. "I wonder if Allah will pardon me?" he asked.

The scholar could not accept this . "You will not be pardoned;' he said. "Then I may as well kill you, too," said the other. And kill him he did.
(so basically what you think that we think about you)

He then found another wiseman and told him that he had killed a 100 people. "I wonder," he said, "whether Allah will pardon me if I repent?" Being a truly wise man, he replied, "Of course you will be pardoned; repent sincerely. I have just one piece of advice for you: avoid the company of wicked people and mix with good people, for bad company leads one into sin:"

The man expressed repentance and regret, weeping as he sincerely implored his Lord to pardon him. Then, turning his back on bad company, he set off to find a neighborhood where righteous people lived.

On the way, his appointed hour arrived, and he died. The angels of punishment and of mercy both came to take away his soul. The angels of punishment said that as a sinful person he rightfully belonged to them, but the angels of mercy also claimed him, saying, "He repented and had resolved to become a good man. He was on his way to a place where righteous people live, but his appointed hour had come." A great debate ensued, and Gabriel was sent as an arbitrator to settle this affair.

After hearing both sides he gave this verdict: "Measure the ground. If the spot where he died is closer to the good people, then he belongs to the angels of mercy, but if it is nearer to the wicked people, he will be given to the angels of punishment."

They measured the ground. Because the man had just set out, he was still closer to the wicked. But because he was sincere in his repentance, the Lord moved the spot where he lay and brought it to just outside the city of the good people.

That penitent servant was handed over to the angels of mercy.

So no matter what either the scholars or angels thought ultimately it is Allah who decided.

BTW why do you care ?

If you are an atheist then there is no Hell so why Worry.
If you belong to any other religion then according to your Beliefs Muslims are wrong so , you dont have to fear Muslim hell.
you asked again

This still doesn't really answer my question. Lets put it this way - do non-believers in Allah (whether they be atheist or from another religion) go to hell or not?

And I've answered the "why do you care" part before.

Why is everyone answering on wayfarers behalf though?
and i answered


As per my entire post only Allah decides who goes to Hell or Heaven, no man can answer this. If i beleive you to be a good person and I think you will go to heaven , or i beleive you to be an evil person and I think you will go the hell all of this is of no consequence as to what is in your heart I cannot see, what you intentions are i can only assume, Muslim or not etc, only Allah decides. Just because you do not agree with the simple fact that I as a man cannot answer on behalf of god.

As to the Why do you care part I must have missed that post if you would care to enlighten my curiosity? at least point to the post

I am not answering on his behalf this is an Introduction to Islam and I have every right to answer. Wayfarers is very Learned more so then me but if i believe i have an answer i will answer (as is evident within this Thread).


your question has been answered .


Please refrain from asking again as its now just spamming this thread
 

DMNknight

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I need to go check which thread we in and what questions I asked where. You defenders of wayfarer have been posting all over the place :)
Liar. See this handy text that get's wrapped in square brackets? >QUOTE=Splinter;18837648<
That part after the ; is the actual post. It puts a blue icon that looks like a fast forward button right next to your name in the quoted text.

Although the main question, which everyone has been studiously avoiding, or answering in a manner so as to not answer at all, is whether the idea that the invisibility of god is to protect mans free will is one mooted by god, or by man.

PS - I really need to get back to work.
I've answered this several times. Would you like me to go and fetch the quotes?
 

Splinter

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Liar. See this handy text that get's wrapped in square brackets? >QUOTE=Splinter;18837648<
That part after the ; is the actual post. It puts a blue icon that looks like a fast forward button right next to your name in the quoted text.
I'm not following?

I've answered this several times. Would you like me to go and fetch the quotes?
Yes please. Bear in mind what I did say as well, "or answering in a manner so as to not answer at all"
 

Xarog

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Yes please. Bear in mind what I did say as well, "or answering in a manner so as to not answer at all"
Splinter: Do you still beat your wife?
Trollbait: I've never beaten my wife.
Splinter: Answered in a manner so as to not answer at all.
 

DMNknight

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Splinter: Do you still beat your wife?
Trollbait: I've never beaten my wife.
Splinter: Answered in a manner so as to not answer at all.
It is time to say, you do not believe as I believe, nor see as I see, let us part ways in mutual understanding that things are different between us.
 

DMNknight

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So not fetching the quotes? What a surprise.....
Isie, did so and all he got for his effort was "not good enough". ( I am roughly paraphrasing)
While our engagement has been interesting, educational and entertaining, I don't see any benefit to myself or you for me to do so.

wayfarer is clearly heeding his own advice and I think it is time for me to defer to the wisdom of his advice.
 

Splinter

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Isie, did so and all he got for his effort was "not good enough". ( I am roughly paraphrasing)
While our engagement has been interesting, educational and entertaining, I don't see any benefit to myself or you for me to do so.

wayfarer is clearly heeding his own advice and I think it is time for me to defer to the wisdom of his advice.
Sure man. Cheers. wayfarer is just in hiding, as usual.
 

Splinter

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I need to go back and check properly, but the one I'm comfortable with expressing right now is:

- did he use "does the shoe fit" as an insult to me in terms of Islamic views about shoes

And forgive me if I am wrong, because I have been responding to a number of you chaps posting in his defence, a couple of others:

- the "free will thing" - is it man-made or a statement by god?
- did he have me in mind when posting and adapting religious texts (about trolls)?
- what does the Quran say about the penalty if you do not believe in God. Although I do have a faint recollection of something, so I may be wrong about this.

There may be something else, but like I said, you chaps have been doing a good job of trying to bury stuff :)
 

isie

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I need to go back and check properly, but the one I'm comfortable with expressing right now is:

- did he use "does the shoe fit" as an insult to me in terms of Islamic views about shoes

And forgive me if I am wrong, because I have been responding to a number of you chaps posting in his defence, a couple of others:

- the "free will thing" - is it man-made or a statement by god?
- did he have me in mind when posting and adapting religious texts (about trolls)?
- what does the Quran say about the penalty if you do not believe in God. Although I do have a faint recollection of something, so I may be wrong about this.

There may be something else, but like I said, you chaps have been doing a good job of trying to bury stuff :)


Show fit - - IIRC you confused culture with religion
Free will - there a a whole topic on that from like 3 years back
penalty - you said it there was a response. iirc this wasnt your question might have been another poster


of course even if though he did (or any one of did ) its not a satisfactory answer , either its not good enough that we answer or his answer is not what you want.
 

isie

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Sorry, but your link is a bit corrupted?

Having said that, nothing you are showing is disproving that wayfarer did not answer my questions?

And this latest defence, that no answer is "not good enough", is just a deflection.

"What I want"? What I want is for people to just answer questions truthfully.
So you ask a question and we answer and we not answering truthfully?

And exactly how can you tell that me or Wayfairer or any of us of are not answering a question about our religion truthfully ?

All i see is if you don't like an answer then you think it's not the truth not good enough and not what you want?
 

DMNknight

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All i see is if you don't like an answer then you think it's not the truth not good enough and not what you want?
Ironically, that's exactly what would happen should God show himself to the masses. To some it would simply not be enough proof and has been beautifully illustrated in this thread.
 
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