Iran Says It Accidentally Shot Down Ukrainian Jet, Apologizes

Swa

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If you read the sites and many others they are referred to as missiles , you can call it what you like but defense dept.s around the globe would know better than you .
Fact is missiles are more efficient than other air assets , not because thewy can loiter but because there are so many type which can be launched from half a world away.
Can call a duck a chicken. Doesn't make it one.
 

Jabulani22

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I'm saying it doesn't seem practical to make something do what it's not inherently designed to do. Those first two links look more like drones with payloads. As for defense departments well, do you think they always come up with good ideas?
Some are hybrid of drone and missile , others are missiles , they may not always come up with good ideas but a few people thought these were worth the time.
 

Splinter

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If you read the sites and many others they are referred to as missiles , you can call it what you like but defense dept.s around the globe would know better than you .
Fact is missiles are more efficient than other air assets , not because thewy can loiter but because there are so many type which can be launched from half a world away.
See above ,yeah you can call Lockheed a non reputable company . sure showed them .
Ok, shifting goal posts and getting aggressive. I will be more than happy to entertain you later.
 

Swa

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Some are hybrid of drone and missile , others are missiles , they may not always come up with good ideas but a few people thought these were worth the time.
Hybrids sure. So had to change the inherent design of a missile (only the 3rd one would actually be a missile). Still don't see how this makes your statement correct that all missiles can loiter.
 

Jabulani22

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Hybrids sure. So had to change the inherent design of a missile (only the 3rd one would actually be a missile). Still don't see how this makes your statement correct that all missiles can loiter.
Yeah i said it in error , and i said most not all , doesnt change the fact that one guy said missiles cant loiter and i proved they can .
Should i link the wiki page which shows cruise missiles can have limited loitering ?
 

Swa

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Yeah i said it in error , and i said most not all , doesnt change the fact that one guy said missiles cant loiter and i proved they can .
Should i link the wiki page which shows cruise missiles can have limited loitering ?
Limited yes. I'd say severely limited. Because by their nature missiles are for doing something else.

They arent wrong , when you invent something , you can name it .
If you invent something yes. They didn't invent missiles so how can they can it missiles?
 

Jabulani22

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Limited yes. I'd say severely limited. Because by their nature missiles are for doing something else.


If you invent something yes. They didn't invent missiles so how can they can it missiles?
Tomahawk Block IV introduced in 2006 adds the strike controller which can change the missile in flight to one of 15 preprogrammed alternate targets or redirect it to a new target. This targeting flexibility includes the capability to loiter over the battlefield awaiting a more critical target. The missile can also transmit battle damage indication imagery and missile health and status messages via the two-way satellite data link. Firing platforms now have the capability to plan and execute GPS-only missions. Block IV also has an improved anti-jam GPS receiver for enhanced mission performance. Block IV includes Tomahawk Weapons Control System (TTWCS), and Tomahawk Command and Control System (TC2S).[13][14][15]

They invented missiles which can loiter , they get to name it .

In October 2015, Raytheon announced the Tomahawk had demonstrated new capabilities in a test launch, using its onboard camera to take a reconnaissance photo and transmit it to fleet headquarters. It then entered a loitering pattern until given new targeting coordinates to strike.[27]
 

Swa

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Tomahawk Block IV introduced in 2006 adds the strike controller which can change the missile in flight to one of 15 preprogrammed alternate targets or redirect it to a new target. This targeting flexibility includes the capability to loiter over the battlefield awaiting a more critical target. The missile can also transmit battle damage indication imagery and missile health and status messages via the two-way satellite data link. Firing platforms now have the capability to plan and execute GPS-only missions. Block IV also has an improved anti-jam GPS receiver for enhanced mission performance. Block IV includes Tomahawk Weapons Control System (TTWCS), and Tomahawk Command and Control System (TC2S).[13][14][15]

They invented missiles which can loiter , they get to name it .

In October 2015, Raytheon announced the Tomahawk had demonstrated new capabilities in a test launch, using its onboard camera to take a reconnaissance photo and transmit it to fleet headquarters. It then entered a loitering pattern until given new targeting coordinates to strike.[27]
Sure nobody disputes that. But missiles remain in most cases short range fast moving objects with a few minutes of fuel. So inherently not really suited for loitering.

And it seems you didn't get my quib about the inventing part.
 

Jabulani22

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Sure nobody disputes that. But missiles remain in most cases short range fast moving objects with a few minutes of fuel. So inherently not really suited for loitering.

And it seems you didn't get my quib about the inventing part.
Im sure that after pouring over my posts , you will not find that i said they are optimised for loiter i merely stated they exist , yes i said most in error but i do believe retro-fitting is possible as done with normal dumb bombs , if they loiter then they loiter and we cannot be sure of how long or how good they are at it as we dont have the access to that obviously classified information.
End of the day missiles rule the sky , and some can reach 1300km , with a satellite and a missile what cant be done ?
 

Grant

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Iran plane downing: Person who filmed video arrested

Iran says it has arrested the person who filmed the footage showing a Ukrainian passenger plane being shot down by a missile.
It is believed the person being detained will face charges related to national security.

When the video was shared on social media, it led analysts to say it showed the plane was hit by a missile.
Iranian media reported that Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards had taken a person who posted a video last week of the missile striking the plane into custody.

But an Iranian journalist based in London who initially posted the footage has insisted that his source is safe, and that the Iranian authorities have arrested the wrong person.

Earlier on Tuesday, Iranian judiciary spokesman Gholamhossein Esmaili said that several people had been detained over the downing of the plane.

He added that about 30 people had been arrested for "taking part in illegal gatherings" - an apparent reference to recent anti-government protests.

 

Swa

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Waiting on people (@Jabulani22) to explain how people should take down their government when there's no human rights. :mad:
 

GotToLuveIT

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Im sure that after pouring over my posts , you will not find that i said they are optimised for loiter i merely stated they exist , yes i said most in error but i do believe retro-fitting is possible as done with normal dumb bombs , if they loiter then they loiter and we cannot be sure of how long or how good they are at it as we dont have the access to that obviously classified information.
End of the day missiles rule the sky , and some can reach 1300km , with a satellite and a missile what cant be done ?
BWHAHA look at Mr armchair general, your BS has been disproven in south east Asia 50 years ago.
Remember a little war called the Vietnam war.
Remember the Gulf war and the lack of beyond visual range air to air kills due to the need to visually identify enemy aircraft.
All the missiles/satellites in the world are meaningless as they cant identify who is actual on the ground at spot A nor take and hold 1 CM of land.
Commanders still rely on mark one eyeballs before deciding to kill anything.
All you posturing is just meaningless twaddle.
 
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Daruk

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Iran plane downing: Person who filmed video arrested


Just when you thought they couldn't pull the turkey card AGAIN... Iran wins mamparraville of the week award. Narrowly beating SA.
It's like they just can't get the basics of decency right.
 

thestaggy

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Yup loitering is possible , and this is just what is public.
And cost effective whilst doing many jobs ? its almost like this has been thought out really well by some top brains.
That still has limitations as the drone is the munition. Once it engages the target there go your eyes in the sky and continued ability to gain intel.

They even market it themselves are more suited for small, specialised operations. It isn't going to replace a B-52 at stand-off range delivering multiple missiles and 2,000 lbs JDAMs. In Syria, B-52s were used as missile platforms, engaging targets outside of Syria's air defence range.

In terms of loitering, an aircraft can carry more missiles/bombs meaning it can continue to assist ground operations after engaging a number of targets. And even if out of ordnance it can still continue providing intel over the area. These ''loitering munitions'' are one-time use only.

Combat aircraft exist because right now there are no UAVs/drones that can fulfill their roles. You can supplement an aircraft and maybe fulfill a niche gap, but you cannot replace them right now. In terms of the nuclear triad, no drone/UAV is capable of carrying the US' nuclear bomb arsenal so their heavy bombers are here to stay.

Even Russia maintains heavy bombers as a part of its nuclear tried, including the 67-year old turboprop Tu-95. The Tu-95 along with the Tu-160 and Tu-22M bombers can also deliver cruise missiles at standoff range.
 
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buka001

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That still has limitations as the drone is the munition. Once it engages the target there go your eyes in the sky and continued ability to gain intel.

They even market it themselves are more suited for small, specialised operations. It isn't going to replace a B-52 at stand-off range delivering multiple missiles and 2,000 lbs JDAMs. In Syria, B-52s were used as missile platforms, engaging targets outside of Syria's air defence range.

In terms of loitering, an aircraft can carry more missiles/bombs meaning it can continue to assist ground operations after engaging a number of targets. And even if out of ordnance it can still continue providing intel over the area. These ''loitering munitions'' are one-time use only.

Combat aircraft exist because right now there are no UAVs/drones that can fulfill their roles. You can supplement an aircraft and maybe fulfill a niche gap, but you cannot replace them right now. In terms of the nuclear triad, no drone/UAV is capable of carrying the US' nuclear bomb arsenal so their heavy bombers are here to stay.

Even Russia maintains heavy bombers as a part of its nuclear tried, including the 67-year old turboprop Tu-95. The Tu-95 along with the Tu-160 and Tu-22M bombers can also deliver cruise missiles at standoff range.
Spot on.

That is why they keep the B-52 operational. That is why they keep the B-1B Lancer operational.

And of course the B-2 offers what no drone can currently offer, hence why the new B-21 is being developed.
 

Jola

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Just when you thought they couldn't pull the turkey card AGAIN... Iran wins mamparraville of the week award. Narrowly beating SA.
It's like they just can't get the basics of decency right.
Yip, they tend to remind one of the ANC !!!
 

Jabulani22

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Waiting on people (@Jabulani22) to explain how people should take down their government when there's no human rights. :mad:
The same way they did it through history , violent protest and probably followed by beheading .
That or use the way the ANC used or or or ..............the options are unlimited.
 
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