Iraq 'on brink of collapse'

[RompelStompel]

But then what was there reason why USA infiltrate and battl in Vietnam in 70's?

The U.S. deployed forces and fought only in South Vietnam and Cambodia

ARVN forces invaded Laos during Lam Son 719 (very late in the war)

Special Ops were conducted beyond the borders of South Vietnam by U.S. forces - e.g. CSAR ,MACV-SOG but only in small numbers.

 

[RompelStompel]

Nonsense about communism taking over the region. Then when their plans went horribly wrong the government couldn't admit they made a huge mistake.

Vietnam : A History by Stanley Karnow is a good book on the history of Vietnam on the French and U.S. involvement in Vietnam.

Gives a good background on both the political and military aspects.

 

[BandwidthAddict]

Hello.

@Sipho: "think USA should have found and finish him off in 1991 Gulf War. Why did they not? Good questopn."

The 1991 war was a UN sponsored affair to kick Saddam out of Kuwait. As it was not a US mission, it had to hold to the dictates of the UN and the UN would not allow the US to take out Saddam. The UN believes you can be reasonable with tyrants. Just take a look at the makeup of the UN human rights commission (then consider the mission of the HCR).

The UNs position on tyrants is the same as the ANCs position on armed thugs, you are not supposed to protect your family and yourself against them. The official position is bent over with open butt cheeks. In the real world, if you do not protect your family against thugs that enter your domicile, you are failing in a primary responsibility.

For all those who think that the Iraq war was about Iraq, you need to do some research. I'm not going to give you the answers because for most of you, you don't care about the truth. In fact, for some of you, GW bashing has become part of your religion. I am not the greatest fan of GW but not for the reasons you might think. He has made some very bad mistakes but the attack on Iraq was not one of them. The alternative to his actions is too horrible to even consider but since the failure of the real mission, talk about the "alternative" is back on the table and I hope, nay pray, that this can be worked out before it becomes necessary.

Lastly, the ICG is a George Soros owned group. George Soros despises everything the US stands for. It makes no difference what they do, George Soros will claim they are the devil, they are losers, failures etc. Although he is lenient on the Democrats, for obvious reasons.

Peace.

 

[nthdimension]

The situation in Iraq is an example of why dealing with tyrants is not a simple matter. If it were they would have gone in, removed Hussein and all would now be wine and roses.

I'm not going to give you the answers because for most of you, you don't care about the truth.

Or perhaps because you simply don't have them.

think USA should have found and finish him off in 1991 Gulf War

Or perhaps go further back and ask why they assisted him in the first place? Or how they contributed to the situation that led them to assist him?

The world is not a simple place and getting involved in other countries can have any number of unforeseen consequences. It doesn't help when you have leaders who think they're on a divine mission.

 

[BandwidthAddict]

@nthdimension

I'm not going to give you the answers because for most of you, you don't care about the truth.

Or perhaps because you simply don't have them.

Or maybe I have fought the good fight and realised that truth is not so important in most peoples lives. In the past, my conversations with ppl have included references and verifiable facts but it was all a waste of time. I have come to believe that something given is worth nothing compared to something earned. If you want information, earn it.

These forums exist not for the truth, but as a soapbox for our opinions. A quick perusal around the topics will show very little actual problem identification and mitigation, most comments are either puerile or whimsical. This is not a judgment but a statement of what the forums represent, an entertainment platform. I myself enjoy it otherwise I would not be here.

But ideas do have consequences and I worry that the political forums may cause more harm then good by solidifying a viewpoint based on flimsy, or incomplete understanding of the issues.

Of course, what I say, as an individual, has very little impact but a chorus has energy. In this I am apathetic because I have come to believe that the world's problems stem from giving power to the individual (democracy) but having the individual base their political views on information supplied at the touch of a button (cnn, sabc, bbc etc). It's like giving a child a gun. I advocate taking power back from the edutainment lobby by actively pursuing information about the topics that we choose to influence. In other words, know what you are doing before doing it. In that way, unintended consequences (aka the road to hell) can be avoided.

Peace.

 

[Amerikanse]

Actually, in all honesty, while Saddam was a bad leader, he is nowhere near as bad as George W Bush, that man is the personification of stupidity and uselessness. The whole war in Iraq was a pretext to get at the oil.....

I hate to break it to all you people who think America is some neocolonialist power, but...America's presence inthe Middle East IS about oil--or, more specifically, energy.

However, Americans are not in the gulf because they want oil cheaply, but because they MUST have it for their economy. Anyway, the war's cost has far outweighed any monetary benifit the US had gotten from the war--also bear in mind the Iraq is just nbow getting it's oil on its feet.

 

[ToxicBunny]

You want my honest opinion.... America wants to control everything, and they get frustrated when people ignore their strangled little pleas. They need to fix their economy and their energy usage, thereby lessening their reliance on oil. I can guarantee you, that project would have been cheaper than the war has been.

 

[Amerikanse]

They need to fix their economy and their energy usage, thereby lessening their reliance on oil. I can guarantee you, that project would have been cheaper than the war has been.

THAT was dead on for sure. The problem? For one, American liberals refuse to let go of their little eco-happy system and won't let anyone drill for oil in Alaska and place as many obstacles as possible in the way of building (ECOFRIENDLY!!) nuclear power plants. The seocnd thing is that for most americans, the so-called "green" cars are too expensive or don't fit their needs. If the American lawmakers want to really demonstrate how much they want their people to go "green" (which I don't believe they do), they would give purchasers tax breaks or something.

 

[kilo39]

They need to fix their economy and their energy usage, thereby lessening their reliance on oil = THAT was dead on for sure. The problem? For one, American liberals refuse to let go of their little eco-happy system and won't let anyone drill for oil in Alaska



Blind is as blind does.

How do people lie to themselves with a straight face?

 

[nthdimension]

and won't let anyone drill for oil in Alaska

And they should not be allowed to drill there. Drilling for oil wipes out the surrounding area. The only reason Bush was pushing to destroy those areas was because his friends wanted to profit from the oil.

the so-called "green" cars are too expensive or don't fit their needs. If the American lawmakers want to really demonstrate how much they want their people to go "green" (which I don't believe they do), they would give purchasers tax breaks or something.

It would help if the average American didn't live in their automobile. They should also learn to drive smaller vehicles generally.

It would help if the government cracked down on SUVs. Manufacturers only produce and push these because it allows them to get around emissions and fuel economy laws.

The US automotive industry has always had to be dragged kicking and screaming. If not for legal measures they'd still be making the low quality, unsafe junk for which the industry is infamous.

 

[RompelStompel]

US marines face Iraq murder trial

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6198947.stm

Eight US marines have been charged over the deaths of 24 Iraqi civilians in the town of Haditha last year.

Four are accused of unpremeditated murder and four others are charged with attempting to cover up the incident.

Men, women and children were killed by marines who said they were under attack from insurgents at the time.

Meanwhile, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has said that despite the cost in lives and money, the war in Iraq has been "worth the investment".

She told the Associated Press news agency that this was because once Iraq emerged as a stabilising factor it would produce a very different kind of Middle East.

The BBC Washington correspondent says the comments show that, despite the calls of many advising the White House to treat the Arab-Israeli conflict as the real key to peace, Ms Rice still clearly believes that Iraq should be the centrepiece of US Middle East policy.

Squad leader Staff Sgt Frank Wuterich has been charged with the unpremeditated murder of 12 Iraqis and ordering his troops to kill six people, his lawyer Neal Puckett said.

Lance Cpl Justin Sharratt has also been charged with three such counts, his legal representatives say.

It is the biggest US criminal case to emerge from the war in Iraq in terms of Iraqis killed.

HADITHA CHARGES

Lt Col Jeffrey R Chessani: Violation of a lawful order; dereliction
Sgt Sanick P Dela Cruz: Unpremeditated murder; false official statement
1st Lt Andrew A Grayson: Dereliction; false official statement; obstructing justice
Capt Lucas M McConnell: Dereliction
Lance Cpl Justin L Sharratt: Unpremeditated murder
Capt Randy W Stone: Violation of a lawful order; dereliction
Lance Cpl Stephen B Tatum: Unpremeditated murder; negligent homicide; assault
Staff Sgt Frank D Wuterich: Unpremeditated murder; soliciting another to commit an offence; false official statement


The US military initially said the civilians died in unrest. If found guilty of second-degree murder, the marines could face life imprisonment.

The BBC's Nick Miles in Washington says the case has provoked debate about the training and leadership of American troops in Iraq and the way in which counter-insurgency operations are being conducted there.

The defence team say a group of marines from Kilo Company in America's First Marine Division were engaged in a furious battle on 19 November 2005 in Haditha after a roadside bomb exploded, killing one marine and injuring two others.

It is known that five unarmed men were shot dead in a car when they approached the scene in a taxi and others, including women and children, died in three houses over the next few hours.

Those who died included a 76-year-old man and a three-year-old child. There were also several women among the dead.

An initial marine press statement said that some civilians were killed in the initial explosion and others in crossfire by insurgents.

But local people say that there were no bullets fired other than by the marines.

The defence lawyers accept that innocent civilians may have died during the chaos but they deny premeditated killing.

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki has called the deaths a "terrible crime".

According to the charge sheets, Sgt Wuterich ordered his men to "shoot first and ask questions later" when they entered a house, the Associated Press news agency reported.


The official US version differs widely from that of locals and the media
There was no full US investigation into what happened until three months later when video footage that was taken by a local human rights activist of the aftermath reached Time Magazine.

Once their report showed flaws in the initial marine statement, an investigation began.

The Haditha inquiry is just one of a number the US military has been conducting into incidents of alleged unlawful killings by US forces in Iraq.

Haditha, 96km (60 miles) north of Baghdad, is the furthest in a string of settlements up the Euphrates that have been prominent in the Sunni insurgency.

Anbar province, which includes Haditha, remains the most dangerous place in Iraq for Americans.

About 100 US troops have been killed there since August this year.