Is 3Gb, 6Gb and 9Gb cap really that bad?

slaikan

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Jul 6, 2004
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Hi

Just wanted to share my ideas on why I think the caps dont bother me, just my 2c, I dont expect anyone to agree with me, nor do i want to start any fights or arguments ;)

Okay, my understanding is that ADSL is aimed at the average home user and the SOHO market. My ADSL experiences have so far been pretty good, a step in the right direction compared to 56k. I will generally refer to ADSL from a small business perspective and why I think it really is possibly a good solution for a small business.

ADSL gives SOHO businesses peace of mind from a cost point of view as costs are fixed, something you can stick into the budget unlike the traditional ISDN and 56k dial-ups.
In incorrectly configured ISDN / 56k connection used for business purposes easily run Telkom bills up to R10k/m. Does that peace of mind not make up for some of the cost of an ADSL line.

For SOHO businesses, paying R1700 for a 9Gb cap, I think is quite a good deal. I think 9gb worth of data transfer is quite substantial for a SOHO PROVIDED that data transfer is LEGITIMATE LEGAL traffic used for business purposes.

By LEGITIMATE & Legal, I mean no illegal P2P traffic, illegal software downloads from warez sites, MP3's, DivX rips, hacked games etc, etc. Isn't this where a lot of the large data transfers happen?

Question: Is R1000 - R1700 that bad if you benefit from downloading say, a DivX rip of a movie. 700Mb x4 gives you 2.8Gb, possibly 4 decent DVD rips. If you had to buy these DVD's in our stores, that would set you back say, R1100. What about the time and effort it would have taken you to go and get that stuff. The same goes for music, games, software etc., but the point is, it's illegal content anyway, so in my screwed up mind, that type of content shouldnt really be included when considering whether you got your value for money for 3Gb of transfer.

The illegal trasfers issue aside, how long would it take you to download 3Gb (6Gb, 9Gb) over a 56k line? I'd say about 150 hours for 3Gb? I would think being permanently connected on the telephone line will also cost quite a bit, close to or more than what you would have paid if you did it with ADSL. Time is money, how much time does ADSL save you because downloads are generally much faster? (from my experience)

If your business requires hosting of web servers, requires large amounts of traffic to be transferred, hosts ftp sites that clients connect to etc, etc, then ADSL isnt the solution, in South Africa at least. You need to match the right solution for the type and size of network, the larger your network, the more its going to cost you.

For SOHO's, you can get around the dynamic IP issue and still get your users to POP their mail off the office server, or use remote desktop, or even use VPN over the ADSL link.

I dont think we can compare ourselves too closely to first world countries like the UK, USA and Australia yet, i think our infrastructure is just not at the same level and we don't the economies of scale they have. Just what i think, i probably don't know any better...

Remember, just my 2c
 

Perdition

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The problem is our bandwidth is more expensive than most THIRD world countries. Telkom ADSL (from all indications) is the most expensive in the world! Also ADSL is not targeted towards just SOHO's but residential users in general. Telkom cannot justify their pricing or the 3 gig cap, they're just abusing their monopoly position while they can.
 

Myrrdin

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Hi slaiken.

Your logic does make sense as you compare Telkom's overpriced ADSL to their overpriced dial-up options. Everyone knows that in most first world countries "local" calls to ISP's have been free for years so even if you had a 56k modem and a local ISP in for example the states you would only have to worry about ISP charges and a flat line rental fee. You do the calculation. Online 24/7 in South Africa on dialup would set you back roughly R10000. In a first world country like the states or the uk. Roughly R50 to R100.

This fight with Telkom has not come about because we now have ADSL, it has been around for a while. It is only now however that it is getting attention as people can be online 24/7 and spend time maintaining a website like this one. I myself am happy with the speed of my ADSL line. The cap is a bit limiting, can't do all the things I used to to do in 128k ISDN and although it works out less expensive it is only so because you compare to a rip-off dialup market.

This is where the whole issue gets complicated. SOHO in South Africa has been left behind years ago because if I had a SOHO in the states with a 64k ISDN line I could host and represent my SOHO company on the internet and for effectively very low cost create an international footprint for my company, hence the dot.com explosion a few years back. Yeah, I know there were a lot of failures, but there are more millionares due to dot.com companies than any other single industry. Because of Telkom we as South African did not have this oppertunity and now that we finally get ADSL no-one is interested in starting a dot.com company. Oh and ADSL is so crippled that even if you were to find some investors, you would be unable to use ADSL for even this purpose.

I dont know about you but in my SOHO everything I get for the company needs to be profitable. But for me to get ADSL for my SOHO so my staff can browse the internet and send email, sorry, it is just not justifiable. Money I spend on ADSL needs to work for me but with the current set-up that is impossible.

Please dont take this as a flame against you, just another viewpoint.
Have a good day.

Of course I don't look busy.....I did it right the first time.
 

reech

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We use ADSL at work with a static ip and a mail server, and we push about 1gb a day - it is suitable for medium volume traffic.
 

Myrrdin

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Hi Reech.

In which country are you because ADSL in South Africa does not have static ip's. At approximately 1gb per day would say 30gb a month which means 10 accounts which means R680 + (R350 * 10) = approximately R4000 per month.

Of course I don't look busy.....I did it right the first time.
 

James

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I find the prices huge for a mere 3gig. I don't download on p2p or games or movies and i have to control usage big time. Unfortunatley i do enjoy gaming. I go from my ADSL straight on to telkoms backbone and on to there SGS server. This chows all my bandwidth and why, it is not costing telkom a penny!!! I am also a web master of a few sites and due to telkoms huge fee's all of which are on interational servers cause local can't be lekker with telkom around so again I have to have my international bandwidth. I just hope something is done about this sad...very sad state of affairs!!!

There is no peace without war!!!
 
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I'm in the same boat Pr13st. I love local gaming espicially BF1942 and I have to control it[}:)].

What Telkom don't seem to understand is that ADSL WAS NOT FOR NORMAL WEB_BROWSING. Because of the increased speed people are supposed to play online games and download huge amounts of stuff.

Telkom's head needs to look at reality and NOT fantasy.
He also needs a big kick up the ***
 

BTTB

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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I find the prices huge for a mere 3gig. I don't download on p2p or games or movies and i have to control usage big time. Unfortunatley i do enjoy gaming. I go from my ADSL straight on to telkoms backbone and on to there SGS server. This chows all my bandwidth and why, it is not costing telkom a penny!!! I am also a web master of a few sites and due to telkoms huge fee's all of which are on interational servers cause local can't be lekker with telkom around so again I have to have my international bandwidth. I just hope something is done about this sad...very sad state of affairs!!!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I sent a similar complaint to Telkom yesterday, showing them my Usage stats. Now that the kids and other family are on holiday my Usage has increased to 400 and 500 mb per day. Of this only a small amount is international and the bulk is consumed on local gaming servers in South Africa by the kids. I have 6 PC's on my network, sometimes 7 or 8 and the kids play games. They seldom browse and never download P2P. My daughter has her Mirc channel running, but thats about all. And for this we get penalised by Telkom. I bought a 6 gig account to avoid being capped, but it seems this might not be enough either. So I am very peeved as I'm paying for a 6 gig account just so that everyone can play on local gaming servers and that I might still be able to browse international websites.
I know, it’s very unfair.
I am contemplating going back to 3 gigs as whats the point. I will rather mark time until one day that Telkom either catches a wake up or I have the choice of service provider.

<b><hr noshade size="1"></b><font size="2"><font color="red"><b>You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.</b></font id="red"></font id="size2">
 

James

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BTTB you can always try this, very huge ball ache though. when you know you are gonna have a big gaming session use a 3 gig account and have another 3gig account just for international stuff. As i said it is a ball ache switching when ever you wanna do something. Also you gonna have to buy 2, 3 gig accounts so might work out more that the 6 gig account. I don't know what they charging for that.

There is no peace without war!!!
 

sss

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u should do what priest says, its quite easy to setup one machine to use one account and all the rest to use the other account!

i'm the gingerbread man!
 

BTTB

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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">BTTB you can always try this, very huge ball ache though. when you know you are gonna have a big gaming session use a 3 gig account and have another 3gig account just for international stuff. As i said it is a ball ache switching when ever you wanna do something. Also you gonna have to buy 2, 3 gig accounts so might work out more that the 6 gig account. I don't know what they charging for that.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Yeah. i know of this method, but couldn't be bothered. If I did P2P, then maybe I might of considered it. I pay MWeb currently R539 for 6 gigs. I think 9 gigs is R739 and 3 gigs is R329.
I mean it looks cheap to anyone in my case. By adding R200, I can get another 3 gigs. But Telkom are missing the point here. The R539, Im paying already is about R329 more than I ever wanted to pay. I mean you have to draw a limit somewhere. Where will the costs end. I would prefer to utilise the extra cash for something useful, as decent internet in South Africa is basically a luxury. And their is the matter of principle aswell. If it wasn't the fact my wife enjoys a bit of international surfing once or twice a month, i would of left the 3 gig account as is. Its a load of bollocks that the SA Public just keeps on bloating Telkom's coffers. Its time the state let little Johnny (Telkom) out into he big wide world to earn a living like everyone else has to in SA.


<b><hr noshade size="1"></b><font size="2"><font color="red"><b>You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.</b></font id="red"></font id="size2">
 

slaikan

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Jul 6, 2004
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Hi

Some interesting viewpoints, just a small question. As far as I'm aware, local bandwidth doesnt get capped. We did some very limited testing to see how the cap affected local bandwidth. We did some normal surfing up to about 1.4Gb over ADSL, then downloaded Fedora Core 2 onto our backbone servers utilizing the bandwidth we receive from AT&T (We're a small ISP for our clients). We then transferred the images from our backbone over ADSL to our offices, this is obviously local traffic. We checked the SAIX monitoring and we were at about 3,2Gb. We the did some international surfing, speeds and downloads were as per normal ADSL speeds. We fired up some downloads and speeds were great until we hit about 5-6Gb, then things really ground to a halt.

So, our conclusion was that although local traffic is added to the counters, it isnt necessarily a true reflection as to when you will be capped? Is this right? I'm almost positive we have a 3Gb account.

Okay, so I don't play online games, but if the above is true, doesnt it make more sense to use a local server for ADSL gaming?
 
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Slaikin that is whay we ALL DO[:)].
Our pings are so useless for overseas servers there's no point playing on them.
However last month though, I hit 1,5 GB on the 7th because of a massive mod my kids downloaded. However while still playing online gaming (my kids that is) we got capped on the 26th on 3.2 GB (with abou 200Mb downloading)
It demonstrated that for 19 days I only reached 1.7GB.
So there must be a sort of "compression"
 

sss

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slaikin thats not quite right, if u download your 3.2 gigs, then it can take them a while to cap you, so you can still squeeze in some more, if you did your test all in one day then you were probably still uncapped during the whole test!

i'm the gingerbread man!
 

TheVoice

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Slaikin: The thing is, ADSL in SA isn't, and can't be targetted at the 'average home user' because it's so damn expensive. Therefore, genereally it's only people that use the internet a lot and want good pings and decent download speeds that will ever justify the insane cost of ADSL.

Regardless of what anybody says, 3GB is not enough. No where else has such a tiny cap, and if they do it's usually because you're paying enxt-to-nothing for the ADSL line in the first place, with the option to go to uncapped or at least a much higher cap.

It's not like everyone here is just flat-out demanding uncapped, cheaper ADSL. It would b efantastic, and maybe one day in 2050 they'll have it, but if we could just come to some kind of agreement with Telkom, such as a slightly higher cap, or have local traffic or uploads excluded from counting towards the cap. Hell, even if they just upgraded the line that we're shifted to when we DO get capped, people would be happy. Telkom has the infrastructure believe me, or they at least have plenty of capital with which to upgrade the infrastructure.

But Telkom won't do any of that, and coming along saying "Well, what they're giving us is fine, what's the problem?" seems patronising IMO. A lot of people on these boards are working towards a better service for ALL ADSL users, so iether join the fight don't, Don't try to make their hard work look useless or unjustified though.
 

MaD

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Thing is 3GB is enough for many, but for 1,000 it's not enough. I would pay R300 total for the current service no more.

Wholesale bandwidth from overseas operators is under R5/GB - R78/GB less than what Hellkom are charging us. For R250/mo we should get 50GB according to that.

Slaikan - as for the economies of scale, ADSL increased 661% in the past year alone which shows there is massive market potential but without decent prices no country in the world would ever achieve economies of scale.

If DSL was R300-400/mo here we would have hundreds of thousands of DSL users for sure. Having just 2 overpriced options for DSL is a huge drawback for the adoption of the service yet people go for it because it's much cheaper than Digniet which is also overpriced.

And as for downloading GB's with Dialup - I download around 8GB/mo just using R7 call and never pay more than R350/mo which includes line rental, Infinitcall subscription and call charges. Admittedly dialup isn't feasible for daytime use cos we are after all 68% more expensive than the second most expensive country in the world.

<font color="navy"><font size="1"><b>Where others have progress, we have Telkom.</b>
Hellkom website - www.hellkom.co.za</font id="size1"></font id="navy">
 

TheVoice

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Yeah that was one other thing I was gonna bring up - why don't they cap dial-up users? Obviously there's the call costs and speeds involved so that acts as a deterrent to do downloading anyway, but surely if 3GB is seen as "enough for a regular user", then dial-up users should also be capped?
 

beyers

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Hi Slaikan

My big problem with the cap is that I can only do a very little streaming. I mean live radio, video etc. Those are things that help make broadband such a wonderful thing, but we cannot share in those pleasures.
 

Robin Hood

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When i look at all the negative sides of ADSL in THIS country, i cannot help but to say : "VIVA 56K MODEM !!!" :))
 
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