Is Covid-19 just a hype?

[pinball wizard]

This thread is weird.

The hype around this disease isn't whether or not it is real or whether or not is has killed "x" amount of people. The hype is the mass hysteria created and the fact that governments around the world are using this hype to further aims that are not health related.

 

[pinball wizard]

Do what with Tokyo?

Ask him to lead the middle class coup to overthrow Squirrel?

 

[Deleted member 369928]

If you count asymptomatic people, which you cant without testing every person on earth, you will find the mortality rate does not justify the lockdown.

I went through the following stages
1) its just flu
2) wait this thing is serious
3) hmm maybe its not really that serious
4) fck off, more people die of flu
5) shove your media hype and crowd mentality fear up your arse
6) its no more lethal than flu, but hey... lets wreck the entire economy

 

[Nicodeamus]

I didn't ask if you thought it was justified, I asked for evidence showing that the lockdown will kill more people than the virus would do without a lockdown.

The final analysis will be seen next year, but so far Sweden and Belarus is doing a good job and not tanking their economies.

I have gave you a study that puts the intervention into question, but you didn't like what it said, so you didn't bother to read it.

Full lockdown policies in Western Europe countries have no evident impacts on the COVID-19 epidemic

This phenomenological study assesses the impacts of full lockdown strategies applied in Italy, France, Spain and United Kingdom, on the slowdown of the 2020 COVID-19 outbreak. Comparing the trajectory of the epidemic before and after the lockdown, we find no evidence of any discontinuity in the...

www.medrxiv.org

Then there is also this site that lists the opinions of tons of experts that bring the lockdown into question.

Facts about Covid-19

Fully referenced facts about Covid-19, provided by experts in the field, to help our readers make a realistic risk assessment.

swprs.org

As far as I understand you didn't bother with what they had to say.

This one is one of my favourites on evaluating the risk.

"Even in the global “hotspots”, the risk of death for the general population of school and working age is typically in the range of a daily car ride to work. The risk was initially overestimated because many people with only mild or no symptoms were not taken into account. "

There is the French Expert, who happens to be the world's most cited in infectious diseases that proposed a reasonable and alternative strategy. The death rate at his HOSPITALS is 0.04% and this does not include asymptomatic carriers of the virus.
He saved lives and did not destroy the economy of Marseilles.

He also has the best figures in Europe.





Again, are you going to read what I post or just continue to say that there is no evidence, expert opinion or doubts to all of this strategy and that none of this is justified? Or is it just confirmation bias.

This should be enough to go to a Swedish type of strategy

In most countries, 50 to 70% of all extra deaths occurred in nursing homes, which do not benefit from a general lockdown. Moreover, in many cases it is not clear whether these people really died from Covid19 or from extreme stress, fear and loneliness.

 

[borro]

Largest US meat company forecasts further upheaval in months ahead

https://www.ft.com/content/f0b4f894-cd46-44f2-b7b0-10707de449db

Analysts at JPMorgan were struck by the tone of the release. “It’s not often that when we ask our companies to be more balanced, it’s because they’re being overly pessimistic,” Ken Goldman, analyst at JPMorgan, said

 

[Jabulani22]

Do what with Tokyo?


That's not true and I think you know that lol



I didn't ask if you thought it was justified, I asked for evidence showing that the lockdown will kill more people than the virus would do without a lockdown.
Also, using that logic where do you draw the line? Is it fine to murder someone cause "it's nothing compared to how many people die each day"?

Compare them with neighbor states , do India or Russia too.
Oh yeah you think lockdowns were for the virus

 

[pinball wizard]

Compare them with neighbor states , do India or Russia too.
Oh yeah you think lockdowns were for the virus

India reopened liquor stores and had to shut them again cause of the stampedes and queues.... That's all I know. Oh, and Russia detained and probably murdered some blokes that tried to publish virus stats that went against the official putin approved numbers.

 

[tetrasect]

The final analysis will be seen next year, but so far Sweden and Belarus is doing a good job and not tanking their economies.

I have gave you a study that puts the intervention into question, but you didn't like what it said, so you didn't bother to read it.

Full lockdown policies in Western Europe countries have no evident impacts on the COVID-19 epidemic

This phenomenological study assesses the impacts of full lockdown strategies applied in Italy, France, Spain and United Kingdom, on the slowdown of the 2020 COVID-19 outbreak. Comparing the trajectory of the epidemic before and after the lockdown, we find no evidence of any discontinuity in the...

www.medrxiv.org

Then there is also this site that lists the opinions of tons of experts that bring the lockdown into question.

Facts about Covid-19

Fully referenced facts about Covid-19, provided by experts in the field, to help our readers make a realistic risk assessment.

swprs.org

As far as I understand you didn't bother with what they had to say.

This one is one of my favourites on evaluating the risk.


There is the French Expert, who happens to be the world's most cited in infectious diseases that proposed a reasonable and alternative strategy.

He also has the best figures in Europe.
View attachment 834700

View attachment 834710


Again, are you going to read what I post or just continue to say that there is no evidence, expert opinion or doubts to all of this strategy and that none of this is justified? Or is it just confirmation bias.

This should be enough to go to a Swedish type of strategy

I might address some of your links later. But again, I was asking for evidence showing that the lockdown will kill more people than the virus would do without a lockdown.

Or has everyone who was saying that 2 weeks ago changed their mind?

 

[Jabulani22]

India reopened liquor stores and had to shut them again cause of the stampedes and queues.... That's all I know. Oh, and Russia detained and probably murdered some blokes that tried to publish virus stats that went against the official putin approved numbers.

Haha classic Russia

 

[Nicodeamus]

I might address some of your links later. But again, I was asking for evidence showing that the lockdown will kill more people than the virus would do without a lockdown.

Or has everyone who was saying that 2 weeks ago changed their mind?

If the UN food programme does not scare you.

Coronavirus crisis could double number of people suffering acute hunger - UN

Report from UN World Food Programme and others warns 265m people are facing acute risk

www.theguardian.com

Then nothing will.

"About 265 million people around the world are forecast to be facing acute food insecurity by the end of this year, a doubling of the 130 million estimated to suffer severe food shortages last year. "

That does not get into the spike in suicides, child molestation, unemployment in most of the world. The symptoms of poverty is always more suffering.

 

[Lupus]

]

If the UN food programme does not scare you.

Coronavirus crisis could double number of people suffering acute hunger - UN

Report from UN World Food Programme and others warns 265m people are facing acute risk

www.theguardian.com

Then nothing will.

"About 265 million people around the world are forecast to be facing acute food insecurity by the end of this year, a doubling of the 130 million estimated to suffer severe food shortages last year. "

That does not get into the spike in suicides, child molestation, unemployment in most of the world. The symptoms of poverty is always more suffering.

Guess what makes a virus job easier? Starving people, hence why the Spanish flu did such a good job after WW1.

 

[Geoff.D]

India reopened liquor stores and had to shut them again cause of the stampedes and queues.... That's all I know. Oh, and Russia detained and probably murdered some blokes that tried to publish virus stats that went against the official putin approved numbers.

So this is going to be a real problem for us as well. Look what happened with the relaxed exercise rules. Not only did you relax, the govt "forced" everyone to exercise at the same time.
So what now with alcohol?
Limited opening hours will equal huge queues. Restricted quantities per person will equal more people out there in queues. That will negatively impact on LD rules of social distancing. It is already almost impossible to go to chemists because of the length of queues. The same with food outlets.
Cigarette sales the same. The moment the ban is lifted we are going to see another stampede.
Hardware stores are open to the public now. The queues at the places are astounding..

 

[borro]

Haha classic Russia

 

[RedViking]

I really feel like it's time for the "lockdown is worse than the virus" crowd to provide some evidence of this claim.

So far 250,000 people have died from this virus globally (that's with lockdowns in effect, we can easily assume multiple times more deaths without lockdowns).
How many people have died from the lockdowns?
What predictive model are you using to support your claim that lockdowns kill more people than if we go back to normal and let the virus "do it's thing"?

I think it's only fair to take into account the deaths the lockdowns have actually prevented so far (murders, accidents, flu deaths etc) and subtract those from the number of deaths due to the lockdowns.

Not debating lockdown is worse. Lockdown is leading towards a STATE OF EMERGENCY compared to COVID State of Disaster.

But 250 000 and only a 200ish of those is for South Africa.

Seriously, as we have more LOCAL data available, enough to make a positive guess, we should adjust the risk measures to reality. Hopefully that can happen in the next month or two.

Otherwise,

If Lockdown is not going to kill us, the move towards Dictatorship and Apartheid and Xenophobia will.

 

[tetrasect]

If the UN food programme does not scare you.

Coronavirus crisis could double number of people suffering acute hunger - UN

Report from UN World Food Programme and others warns 265m people are facing acute risk

www.theguardian.com

Then nothing will.

"About 265 million people around the world are forecast to be facing acute food insecurity by the end of this year, a doubling of the 130 million estimated to suffer severe food shortages last year. "

That does not get into the spike in suicides, child molestation, unemployment in most of the world. The symptoms of poverty is always more suffering.

Recession is caused by the coronavirus, not the lockdown. Stocks bottomed out way before any lockdowns were implemented. The UK is facing -10% GDP, Sweden is facing -10% GDP, nothing will save us from a recession.

 

[pinball wizard]

If Lockdown is not going to kill us, the move towards Dictatorship and Apartheid and Xenophobia will.

The lockdown is the first step in the move towards those things. It is not health related.

 

[pinball wizard]

Recession is caused by the coronavirus, not the lockdown. Stocks bottomed out way before any lockdowns were implemented. The UK is facing -10% GDP, Sweden is facing -10% GDP, nothing will save us from a recession.

Those numbers would have been a lot closer to zero without all the crackdowns.

 

[Jabulani22]

I might address some of your links later. But again, I was asking for evidence showing that the lockdown will kill more people than the virus would do without a lockdown.

Or has everyone who was saying that 2 weeks ago changed their mind?

I didn't change my mind , LD is worse than the disease , you forget to mention that 90% of the 250k that died were just as at risk from any infection , the other 10% are likely just probable deaths added without confirmation.
It's just a flu , in fact flu killed 80k in the us last season didn't it.
That's 80k without officials bloating numbers.

 

[tetrasect]

Not debating lockdown is worse. Lockdown is leading towards a STATE OF EMERGENCY compared to COVID State of Disaster.

But 250 000 and only a 200ish of those is for South Africa.

Seriously, as we have more LOCAL data available, enough to make a positive guess, we should adjust the risk measures to reality. Hopefully that can happen in the next month or two.

Otherwise,

If Lockdown is not going to kill us, the move towards Dictatorship and Apartheid and Xenophobia will.

So how many people have died from the lockdown? People were saying the initial 3 week lockdown will kill more people than the coronavirus would and it's since been over a month now. The lockdown deaths should be piling up.

 

[RedViking]

The lockdown is the first step in the move towards those things. It is not health related.

I'll leave the conspiracy stuff for you and MIMB Prof. @Jabulani22.

Please do post more on it. I enjoy the MIMB articles.



But I am sure the Lockdown will be used as the NEXT step towards the governments personal agenda.

What greater opportunity to have a lot of businesses collapse and making sure they collapse to make way for the elect.