Is it possible to prosecute someone in SA using IP Address only?

[Praemon]

I wanted to have an open discussion on whether it's possible to prosecute someone just based on an IP Address, and what methods are available to obtain the customer information behind the IP Address if it happens on a local website. This is a theoretical discussion on possible steps to take within South African law. To keep the discussion on topic, it's assumed the suspect's IP address is real and local (local ISP/mobile operator. not behind a proxy/VPN). It's also assumed the entity wanting to lay the charge has unlimited funding, so that we don't have a discussion on "it's too expensive". This is just looking at whether it's possible.

I think there's three points to this:

1. How to legally obtain the IP Address, if you don't have it (lets assume it happens on a South African-hosted website so we don't deal with international law)

2. Once a valid IP address is found, will ISPs/Mobile operators provide the customer information (and what legal steps would need to be taken)

3. Finally, once this information is found, is it possible to actually prosecute someone using that information.

Potentially 1 & 2 can both be realized via a Doe Subpoena. Presumably a case would have to be opened with the police, and then you could approach the court to issue one based on enough evidence (such as fraud). I don't know, however, whether this is something applicable in South African courts, and/or whether this is something that can be done without the police (ie. they have to request it).

If anyone has experience with this, it would be great to share, as I'm sure anyone who has been defrauded over the internet have thought of ways of getting back at the perpetrators.

 

[Nemus]

I wanted to have an open discussion on whether it's possible to prosecute someone just based on an IP Address, and what methods are available to obtain the customer information behind the IP Address if it happens on a local website. This is a theoretical discussion on possible steps to take within South African law. To keep the discussion on topic, it's assumed the suspect's IP address is real and local (local ISP/mobile operator. not behind a proxy/VPN). It's also assumed the entity wanting to lay the charge has unlimited funding, so that we don't have a discussion on "it's too expensive". This is just looking at whether it's possible.

I think there's three points to this:

1. How to legally obtain the IP Address, if you don't have it (lets assume it happens on a South African-hosted website so we don't deal with international law)

2. Once a valid IP address is found, will ISPs/Mobile operators provide the customer information (and what legal steps would need to be taken)

3. Finally, once this information is found, is it possible to actually prosecute someone using that information.

Potentially 1 & 2 can both be realized via a Doe Subpoena. Presumably a case would have to be opened with the police, and then you could approach the court to issue one based on enough evidence (such as fraud). I don't know, however, whether this is something applicable in South African courts, and/or whether this is something that can be done without the police (ie. they have to request it).

If anyone has experience with this, it would be great to share, as I'm sure anyone who has been defrauded over the internet have thought of ways of getting back at the perpetrators.

1. Court Order
2. Court Order (if the above identified the IP/User)
3. Difficult in that how do you prove it was an individual specifically, if (in the case of a hostel, for instance) there are multiple users on a PC?

Very interested to hear the comments..

 

[greg0205]

So, how's the new job at Multichoice going?

 

[Praemon]

...
3. Difficult in that how do you prove it was an individual specifically, if (in the case of a hostel, for instance) there are multiple users on a PC?

I think that's exactly it. But I guess it's worth checking whether RIAA/MPAA or SAFact has actually charged someone for sharing copyright data in SA and won the case, as this would be based on similar data. I remember reading about SAFact taking someone to court in 2014 for torrenting a movie. Presumably their evidence was the IP Address. If that went through successfully, then it could set precedent.

Edit: Looks like the person in the SAFact case pleaded guilty, so perhaps it was never fully tested whether the IP Address is enough evidence to go on.

 

[ChocolateBadger]

You should stay off those dodgy websites if that's what you're worried about.

 

[lexor]

1. Get SA Police to open case ( fraud ?) and they will apply for Section 205 subpoena via court
2. Same as above
3. Now SA Police will have to ID the specific user - can be difficult depending on facts.

No money/lawyers needed for this.

 

[FNfal]

All the information you are looking for is in RICA .
If the offence is a criminal offence the police handle every thing .
205 subpoena will be needed if it is a civil case .