Is it really worth having a pension/provident fund?

SauRoNZA

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Jul 6, 2010
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Liberty, Old Mutual, plus a few others. Have shut them all down.

But quite apart from the mediocre local returns, if you look at it in USD terms it is horrific. ANC is bankrupting all of us.

Neither of those are investment companies and they eat away at your money with their silly high fees.

It doesn't mean RA/Pensions as a concept didn't perform, it just means you got shafted.
 

supersunbird

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Oct 1, 2005
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Liberty, Old Mutual, plus a few others. Have shut them all down.

But quite apart from the mediocre local returns, if you look at it in USD terms it is horrific. ANC is bankrupting all of us.

Oh, expensive life insurers :sick:
 

Jola

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Sep 22, 2005
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Oh, expensive life insurers :sick:

Yip cleaned me out. And the ANC helped them by imploding the ZAR, and the economy.

Who are good low cost investment companies now ? Sygnia ? Who else ?

Allan Gray seems to be expensive too ?
 

TofuMofu

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Aug 11, 2008
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Yip cleaned me out. And the ANC helped them by imploding the ZAR, and the economy.

Who are good low cost investment companies now ? Sygnia ? Who else ?

Allan Gray seems to be expensive too ?

10X. I love 10X
 

backstreetboy

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Yip cleaned me out. And the ANC helped them by imploding the ZAR, and the economy.

Who are good low cost investment companies now ? Sygnia ? Who else ?

Allan Gray seems to be expensive too ?
Sygnia, Nedbank, EE etc. I love Sygnia. Can effortlessly compare 1500 funds with them etc.
 

John Tempus

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If the ANC get to enforce pension investments into SOE you could have just spend all your money over the years rather than dumping it into pension investment schemes.

That said I would suggest anyone to learn some self control and invest/manage their own pension fund no different to a savings account. This is more liquid and in the odd chance the ANC do get into law the use of pension fund investments dumped into SOE you would not get screwed over by that.
 

Splinter

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Oct 14, 2011
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In my experience the returns have been really poor.

About zero return over 9 years with a few of the majors, for example.

The tax deferment does not compensate for that.

Best policy would have been to pay full tax and to invest offshore.
That seems very odd.
 

CamiKaze

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May 19, 2010
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Anyone know the difference between the "Sygnia Skeleton 70 Fund UPF" and the Sygnia Skeleton Balanced 70 Fund?

Besides the fact that the TIC for the UPF fund is 0.71%, and the Balanced Fund is 0,49%, what would be the best option for a Preservation fund?

I think that the UPF is geared for a Preservation fund, but it has a higher expense than the balanced fund... So... is it a better product?
 

PhreakBoy

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Anyone know the difference between the "Sygnia Skeleton 70 Fund UPF" and the Sygnia Skeleton Balanced 70 Fund?

Besides the fact that the TIC for the UPF fund is 0.71%, and the Balanced Fund is 0,49%, what would be the best option for a Preservation fund?

I think that the UPF is geared for a Preservation fund, but it has a higher expense than the balanced fund... So... is it a better product?

UPF seems to be an acronym for Untaxed Pooled Life Policy. Unfortunately I have had no luck in finding information on what a UPF is.

The fund fact sheets don't offer an explanation either:

https://assets.ctfassets.net/26bnfu...eton_70_Fund_UPF_-_FFS_2016_INSTITUTIONAL.pdf

https://assets.ctfassets.net/26bnfu...gnia_Skeleton_Balanced_70_-_FFS_2016_SKEL.pdf
 

CamiKaze

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UPF seems to be an acronym for Untaxed Pooled Life Policy. Unfortunately I have had no luck in finding information on what a UPF is.

The fund fact sheets don't offer an explanation either:

https://assets.ctfassets.net/26bnfu...eton_70_Fund_UPF_-_FFS_2016_INSTITUTIONAL.pdf

https://assets.ctfassets.net/26bnfu...gnia_Skeleton_Balanced_70_-_FFS_2016_SKEL.pdf
And when I phoned the bastards, all they told me is that they can't offer advice because it is against their policy.
They can't even offer advice on the product... why do they have a sales team then?
 

deweyzeph

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Apr 17, 2009
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And when I phoned the bastards, all they told me is that they can't offer advice because it is against their policy.
They can't even offer advice on the product... why do they have a sales team then?

It's pretty standard across the financial services industry. They can sell you products if you know what you want, hence the sales team, but they're not allowed to advise you which one to choose. I actually think it's the law, not just company policy.
 

SHL

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Dec 17, 2012
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I'm so glad our company forced us to take out a provident fund. I wouldn't have saved even half of what it's currently sitting at now.
 
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Cius

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Jan 20, 2009
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My total contributions over the past 14 years are less than half my current pension value. Growth is really starting to kick in now that the base is higher. Takes time for that ball to get rolling but it is worth it in the end. By my estimation by retirement age I estimate I will have over 6 times my total contributions.
 

PhreakBoy

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And when I phoned the bastards, all they told me is that they can't offer advice because it is against their policy.
They can't even offer advice on the product... why do they have a sales team then?

Well just based off the (lack of) information provided, I am assuming that UPF product has some kind of insurance element to it, either to try and guarantee returns or guard against excessive losses. And I personally don't like products that try and combine too many things, if I want insurance I'll get insurance.

Both seem to be in the same risk category, but if it were me I'd likely go for the one that seems to have less complexity and/or is cheaper. (not financial advice blah-di-blah).

But the lack of information is annoyingly frustrating.
 

CamiKaze

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It's pretty standard across the financial services industry. They can sell you products if you know what you want, hence the sales team, but they're not allowed to advise you which one to choose. I actually think it's the law, not just company policy.
Yeah I know that it is standard and against the law, but I would expect a sales team to elaborate on what the product is that they are selling.
Tell me what the difference between the two products are... That's it... One can do this without telling the client what to choose.
 

supersunbird

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Oct 1, 2005
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Yeah I know that it is standard and against the law, but I would expect a sales team to elaborate on what the product is that they are selling.
Tell me what the difference between the two products are... That's it... One can do this without telling the client what to choose.
On your phone call/mail, did you state you just want to know what the difference between the 2 products are? No mention of anything else?
 
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