Is it time to get out of South Africa?

[saturnz]

~300B to ~245B in Pounds. ~360B to ~290B in Euros. The only currency that would make any difference to this result is one that has devalued more than the Rand. UK's GDP has gone up in dollars, most of the EU has gone slightly down. This is hardly about movement in the USD, but rather the massive devaluation of the rand against just about everything else.

the argument remains the same, financial flows

its common knowledge that financial flows far outweigh trade flows these days

the EU, UK and US have been printing vast amounts of money, and people have been purchasing their bonds because of uncertainty in world markets

theory suggests that printing such vast somes of money should lead to a devaluation in the currency (as with Zim) which we have yet to experience, those currencies are inflated according to orthodox economic theory

just as a side note, the US has been printing so much money that they no longer publish their M3 money supply stats, for atleast the last 10 years

 

[HavocXphere]

Look at other developing nations, how they are suffering: Brazil, Venezuela. That's what we should be comparing ourselves to. Not to the UK, USA, AUS or EU. That's a ridiculous thing to do.

Perspective people, get some.

Many people have the option of going to UK/USA/EU/AUS though, so for them the relevant comparison is SA versus those, even if the countries differ (hell thats the entire point).

first chicken run

AWB crowd aside I don't think many are running. People try to optimise their life - has nothing to do with being "chicken". Hell you'd be stupid for ignoring an opportunity to improve your life (obviously subjective).

 

[Dave]

People try to optimise their life - has nothing to do with being "chicken". Hell you'd be stupid for ignoring an opportunity to improve your life (obviously subjective).

I didn't leave to improve my life, I had a good job that (barring me making a very large f++k up) I could have kept for life with decent medical aid, pension and perks. If anything, leaving had the chance to cause a depreciation to our life as we had at the time (luck meant that didn't happen and I live a very comfortable, relatively stress free life now).

We saw the writing on the wall so we left so we could ensure our children would be able to improve their lives.

Which is what happened...

 

[HavocXphere]

I didn't leave to improve my life, I had a good job that (barring me making a very large f++k up) I could have kept for life with decent medical aid, pension and perks. If anything, leaving had the chance to cause a depreciation to our life as we had at the time (luck meant that didn't happen and I live a very comfortable, relatively stress free life now).

We saw the writing on the wall so we left so we could ensure our children would be able to improve their lives.

Which is what happened...

I'd contend that that is an improvement in your life. Pity if it didn't improve yours directly though.

 

[profeet]

lol. Can just as well swing the question around

Is it time to get out of mybroadband?

 

[Dave]

I'd contend that that is an improvement in your life. Pity if it didn't improve yours directly though.

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I meant there was a risk to us when we left, from a decent job I took a jump into the unknown with nothing arranged. Luckily everything was smooth and I had a reasonable job pretty quickly and ended up owning my own business within 5 years.

The move was pretty good for us, we live a comfortable life with very little stress these days. I don't have to do much anymore, I've turned into a lazy schitt .

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Unfortunately I don't have any overseas ancestry to rely on and I've got no overseas opportunities at the moment. So I'm kind of stuck here unless I can figure out a way.

What are your qualifications/experience? Have you had a look at the skills shortage lists on any of the countries you might want to go to?

The opportunities don't spring from the void. They're possibly already there, you just need to find a way to link up with them.

 

[SlinkyMike]

Many people have the option of going to UK/USA/EU/AUS though, so for them the relevant comparison is SA versus those, even if the countries differ (hell thats the entire point).


AWB crowd aside I don't think many are running. People try to optimise their life - has nothing to do with being "chicken". Hell you'd be stupid for ignoring an opportunity to improve your life (obviously subjective).

That's an excellent point. Why is it then that the story isn't: 'We've happened upon and incredible opportunity in UK/USA/EU/AUS, wish us luck we are taking the plunge!' ...why is the story so often one of bitterness and vitriol toward SA?

Look at the title of this very thread "...get out...", that's not language that signals optimism for the future or perhaps a bittersweet farewell to a beloved country.

What is it about South Africans that they don't even want those who wish to stay and build here to have a good, decent country to call home?

Why must they spit on it as they leave?

 

[Bobbin]

Careful what you wish for, it's a fairly common thing in Africa for ruling parties to go towards dictatorship when an opposition starts to threaten them.

You only have to look at Zim as an example...

I've also been warned that should ANC lose power it could potentially spell a disaster riot. Not sure if true or any merit to this but I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[freddster]

That's an excellent point. Why is it then that the story isn't: 'We've happened upon and incredible opportunity in UK/USA/EU/AUS, wish us luck we are taking the plunge!' ...why is the story so often one of bitterness and vitriol toward SA?

Look at the title of this very thread "...get out...", that's not language that signals optimism for the future or perhaps a bittersweet farewell to a beloved country.

What is it about South Africans that they don't even want those who wish to stay and build here to have a good, decent country to call home?

Why must they spit on it as they leave?

There ain't opportunities here.
If you can't find employment here and overseas say "come", would you stay here? I have seen many families pack up and go just because of that. Members of my family as well. Because of uneployment. And most of those were over 40. Yes, and I am over 40 and I'm unemployed. And I'm white. So why should I waste my time here any longer where I'm not welcome?(waiting for the usuals' replies)

 

[Bobbin]

What are your qualifications/experience? Have you had a look at the skills shortage lists on any of the countries you might want to go to?

The opportunities don't spring from the void. They're possibly already there, you just need to find a way to link up with them.

I have a BComm degree (Marketing and Management) internationally recognized. Also MCITP/MCSA (Microsoft) but its a little outdated now. About 10 years professional experience in IT industry starting from basic support to higher tier support to project management and engagement particularly in corporate environments. I think qualification wise I'd be alright but it's not exactly specialist.

Would an overseas company seriously worry about all the admin getting me in-country rather than hiring a local guy? If I were a "company" I'd not bother unless the skills of the individual were very highly sought after and unavailable locally On the other hand I'd not be able to travel overseas without some form of sponsorship or work visa to get my foot in the door. So catch22 then?

 

[TheChamp]

That's an excellent point. Why is it then that the story isn't: 'We've happened upon and incredible opportunity in UK/USA/EU/AUS, wish us luck we are taking the plunge!' ...why is the story so often one of bitterness and vitriol toward SA?

Look at the title of this very thread "...get out...", that's not language that signals optimism for the future or perhaps a bittersweet farewell to a beloved country.

What is it about South Africans that they don't even want those who wish to stay and build here to have a good, decent country to call home?

Why must they spit on it as they leave?

Excellent post.

 

[Lupus]

Ive thought of this question a lot. I dont think I would be able to lead the lifestyle and have the quality of life i have in SA anywhere else in the world. Also owning my own business here makes leaving a difficult decision - i doubt my Rands will take me far enough to be able to buy another business anywhere else in the world and I have no desire to ever work for someone else ever again. Its sad because the country has so much of potential but keeps shooting itself in the foot.

You'd probably have a better quality of life, earning a currency that matters, you'd be able to travel more and get to do things outside. What do you do here in South Africa you couldn't do anywhere else?

 

[cguy]

I have a BComm degree (Marketing and Management) internationally recognized. Also MCTIP/MCSA (Microsoft) but its a little outdated now. About 10 years professional experience in IT industry starting from basic support to higher tier support to project management and engagement particularly in corporate environments. I think qualification wise I'd be alright but it's not exactly specialist.

Would an overseas company seriously worry about all the admin getting me in-country rather than hiring a local guy? If I were a "company" I'd not bother unless the skills of the individual were very highly sought after and unavailable locally On the other hand I'd not be able to travel overseas without some form of sponsorship or work visa to get my foot in the door. So catch22 then?

Most large overseas companies have retained legal staff to do exactly this. If they want to hire you, it's likely a well established process, and very little overhead for them. Really, you just have to be well above the average local hire, and you have a shot. The hard part is getting them to notice you - just to get an interview at all. So knowing someone in the company is ideal, otherwise your CV needs to have something really eye catching on it (contributions to well known open source projects, etc.).

 

[HavocXphere]

Would an overseas company seriously worry about all the admin getting me in-country rather than hiring a local guy?

Well there are ways around that. e.g. A family friend moved to Arizona US. Simply put...the place is an oven and no sane American wants to live there. Small price to pay...

Most large overseas companies have retained legal staff to do exactly this.

Yup. The bigger ones are crazy organised. e.g. My employer has people on staff that do nothing other than sort out tax issues for people jumping between countries. Thats literally what they do all day.

 

[freddster]

I have a BComm degree (Marketing and Management) internationally recognized. Also MCTIP/MCSA (Microsoft) but its a little outdated now. About 10 years professional experience in IT industry starting from basic support to higher tier support to project management and engagement particularly in corporate environments. I think qualification wise I'd be alright but it's not exactly specialist.

Would an overseas company seriously worry about all the admin getting me in-country rather than hiring a local guy? If I were a "company" I'd not bother unless the skills of the individual were very highly sought after and unavailable locally On the other hand I'd not be able to travel overseas without some form of sponsorship or work visa to get my foot in the door. So catch22 then?

Aus would take you in no time if your skills are something they're looking for. They're looking for anything from plumbers to doctors and nurses.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

I have a BComm degree (Marketing and Management) internationally recognized. Also MCTIP/MCSA (Microsoft) but its a little outdated now. About 10 years professional experience in IT industry starting from basic support to higher tier support to project management and engagement particularly in corporate environments. I think qualification wise I'd be alright but it's not exactly specialist.

Would an overseas company seriously worry about all the admin getting me in-country rather than hiring a local guy? If I were a "company" I'd not bother unless the skills of the individual were very highly sought after and unavailable locally On the other hand I'd not be able to travel overseas without some form of sponsorship or work visa to get my foot in the door. So catch22 then?

In addition to what cguy and HavocXphere have said - it can actually be simpler than that. If you remove the admin from their side (if it isn't a massive company with established personnel for only this purpose that is) and you do it yourself, it'll make the decision even easier for them if you meet the job requirements.

All they'd have to do is provide confirmation that they're offering you a job for work visa purposes. You do the application, pay the costs (incl. flights etc.) and so on.

Regarding the local hire issue, depends on the country and their immigration rules. I know New Zealand, for example, have a long list of accredited employers who don't have to justify why they couldn't hire a local.

As I said, a lot of opportunities are there, but they won't just jump out at you. Do a bit of digging and you'll see a pathway emerge.

 

[Bobbin]

Thanks for all the responses. Feeling a bit more optimistic.

After all said and done I still don't want to leave SA but if another ANC term is likely at the next nationals I'd consider that the trigger - I think I'd be foolish not to. Will start investigating options in the meantime.

On a side note I recently learned a guy I knew was shot and killed on his plot in a home invasion His plot is not far off from where, about a year and some ago, my mom and sis was also tied up during an armed robbery on their plot. On that day I'd just left their premises about 30 minutes earlier before they were invaded. It is strongly suspected that had I still been there I'd have been killed seeing as I was the only male present :/

*sigh Sorry to mention negative stuff but this bull**** is really getting to me at the moment... Apparently, "It's not only South Africa but everywhere"... I don't know what to say to that statement.

 

[TEXTILE GUY]

*sigh Sorry to mention negative stuff but this bull**** is really getting to me at the moment... Apparently, "It's not only South Africa but everywhere"... I don't know what to say to that statement.

You (and I) expect more from the country because we know what it was and could be ....

It could get worse - granted, but it could get better.

The next elections will tell us where we are headed.

 

[cguy]

*sigh Sorry to mention negative stuff but this bull**** is really getting to me at the moment... Apparently, "It's not only South Africa but everywhere"... I don't know what to say to that statement.

This is why a course in basic statistics at high school level would be so valuable...