Is OSCAR PISTORIUS guilty or innocent? With what you know so far what is your view?

Guilty or not?

  • Guilty of murder

    Votes: 157 77.0%
  • Innocent of murder

    Votes: 31 15.2%
  • Guilty of reckless discharge of firearm in public. COUNT 1

    Votes: 127 62.3%
  • Innocent of reckless discharge of firearm in public. COUNT 1

    Votes: 13 6.4%
  • Guilty of reckless discharge of firearm in public. COUNT 2.

    Votes: 117 57.4%
  • Innocent of reckless discharge of firearm in public. COUNT 2.

    Votes: 15 7.4%
  • Guilty of illegal possession of ammunition

    Votes: 88 43.1%
  • Innocent of illegal possession of ammunition

    Votes: 26 12.7%
  • Still not decided.

    Votes: 8 3.9%

  • Total voters
    204

antowan

Honorary Master
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
13,025
Is OSCAR PISTORIUS guilty or innocent? With what you know so far what is your view?

Note the multiple answer poll...
 
Last edited:

Quantum Theory

Executive Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
9,442
Guilty, he is... Intentional or accidental? That is the question you must ask.

His testimony the last 2 days seems coached. I don't believe a word. Can't wait for the cross examination. Hope Nel can show what a fraud and liar he is.
 

OverKill69

Senior Member
Joined
May 12, 2008
Messages
796
I'm finding it hard to fit his version so far with the evidence.

Mostly... the bullet holes on the door and his explanation.
1) He says he fired using his right hand only while holding onto the wall with his left.
2) The bullet holes are all at the roughly same level
3) He says the bathroom was dark

As a firearm instructor, one learns to look at a student's target and see what they are doing wrong/right while shooting. A shot to little low and to the left (right hand shooters) usually means the shooter is "jerking the trigger", a shot significantly low means the shooter is usually "muzzle dipping" in anticipation of recoil. A grouping high usually means the shooter is giving too much front sight... and so on and so on...
Much can be determined watching someone shoot. There are a lot of techniques and bad habits which creep in that effect accuracy; especially in follow up shots. Trigger reset, follow through, rhythm etc.

We all had the opportunity to watch Oscar fire his Taurus PT917 in that Sky News video by Alex Crawford. We see Oscar adopting a typical isosceles stance, lean forward in a relatively proper way, but his off hand's forefinger is out of position (bad habits).
Now granted... I haven't stood next to him and watched him shoot, but I can make some assumptions.

Controlling muzzle flip is the main aim in repetitive and accurate shooting. A typical mistake a shooter makes when firing successive shots is not following through; thus not allowing the muzzle to return to a position to make the next shot an accurate one. This usually requires lots of practice to correct, and results in a steady rhythm, usually about a second or so between follow up shots.
Baring in mind that "9mm Black Talons" are loaded +P+... this means they have more charge behind the projectile which means the "felt recoil" and the resulting "muzzle flip" would be significantly greater than standard 9mm range ammo. (about 20% more firing pressure)
Oscar's shots on the door are all roughly at the same height... which suggests to me the shots were controlled and deliberate. So I would assume the shots were not closer together than about a second to each other.

Oscar says he fired with his strong hand only?
This would mean that more time is required in between shots to regain sight picture.
I've fired tens of thousands of rounds down range in competitions, and we sometimes have to fire "strong hand only", and this greatly increases the time in between successive shots in even the most proficient shooters using highly modified competition firearms designed to greatly reduce felt recoil and muzzle flip.

Oscar says the bathroom was dark?
Well... having shot in night shoot competitions, and been a range officer at many stages, I can tell you that the first shot absolutely destroys one's night vision. If you've been in the dark for an extended time and your pupils are fully dilated... that muzzle flash leaves a huge green blur in your vision. Your pupils immediately constrict and your night vision goes for a ball of poo. So to make follow up shots in the same area takes THOUSANDS of rounds of practice to develop instinctive muscle memory.

I just can't fit the shot pattern on the door to a "unbalanced" shooter, firing in the dark, with one hand, with hot ammo, in rapid succession...

I don't know how well Oscar shoots... But I know how well the regional IPSC champions shoot... and they'd struggle to match that feat.
 

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
59,599
Bad poll, he could also be guilty of culpable homicide (manslaughter).
 

TheTwo

Expert Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Messages
1,529
I'm finding it hard to fit his version so far with the evidence.

Mostly... the bullet holes on the door and his explanation.
1) He says he fired using his right hand only while holding onto the wall with his left.
2) The bullet holes are all at the roughly same level
3) He says the bathroom was dark

As a firearm instructor, one learns to look at a student's target and see what they are doing wrong/right while shooting. A shot to little low and to the left (right hand shooters) usually means the shooter is "jerking the trigger", a shot significantly low means the shooter is usually "muzzle dipping" in anticipation of recoil. A grouping high usually means the shooter is giving too much front sight... and so on and so on...
Much can be determined watching someone shoot. There are a lot of techniques and bad habits which creep in that effect accuracy; especially in follow up shots. Trigger reset, follow through, rhythm etc.

We all had the opportunity to watch Oscar fire his Taurus PT917 in that Sky News video by Alex Crawford. We see Oscar adopting a typical isosceles stance, lean forward in a relatively proper way, but his off hand's forefinger is out of position (bad habits).
Now granted... I haven't stood next to him and watched him shoot, but I can make some assumptions.

Controlling muzzle flip is the main aim in repetitive and accurate shooting. A typical mistake a shooter makes when firing successive shots is not following through; thus not allowing the muzzle to return to a position to make the next shot an accurate one. This usually requires lots of practice to correct, and results in a steady rhythm, usually about a second or so between follow up shots.
Baring in mind that "9mm Black Talons" are loaded +P+... this means they have more charge behind the projectile which means the "felt recoil" and the resulting "muzzle flip" would be significantly greater than standard 9mm range ammo. (about 20% more firing pressure)
Oscar's shots on the door are all roughly at the same height... which suggests to me the shots were controlled and deliberate. So I would assume the shots were not closer together than about a second to each other.

Oscar says he fired with his strong hand only?
This would mean that more time is required in between shots to regain sight picture.
I've fired tens of thousands of rounds down range in competitions, and we sometimes have to fire "strong hand only", and this greatly increases the time in between successive shots in even the most proficient shooters using highly modified competition firearms designed to greatly reduce felt recoil and muzzle flip.

Oscar says the bathroom was dark?
Well... having shot in night shoot competitions, and been a range officer at many stages, I can tell you that the first shot absolutely destroys one's night vision. If you've been in the dark for an extended time and your pupils are fully dilated... that muzzle flash leaves a huge green blur in your vision. Your pupils immediately constrict and your night vision goes for a ball of poo. So to make follow up shots in the same area takes THOUSANDS of rounds of practice to develop instinctive muscle memory.

I just can't fit the shot pattern on the door to a "unbalanced" shooter, firing in the dark, with one hand, with hot ammo, in rapid succession...

I don't know how well Oscar shoots... But I know how well the regional IPSC champions shoot... and they'd struggle to match that feat.

The State needs you as an expert witness
 

skimread

Honorary Master
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Messages
10,883
IMO from listening to people you can break it up into 3 groups

men who think he's guilty
women who think he's guilty because he murdered an innocent women
women who think he's innocent because they believe him when he cries
 

skimread

Honorary Master
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Messages
10,883
Bad poll, he could also be guilty of culpable homicide (manslaughter).
He already admitted to that and if not guilty of murder will be found guilty of manslaughter and get a suspended sentence for it.
 

Arthur

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 7, 2003
Messages
25,994
What a bizarre poll. And even more shocking are the responses. I am truly appalled ... never knew most people here were so narrow, prejudiced and unselfaware.

You might as well be asking people to tick one or more of the following:

* I am prejudiced. I judge people and situations before I know all the facts.

* I make up my mind about important matters based on feelings, intuitions, or impressions rather than on hearing and weighing all the evidence.

* Feelings always trump facts, which is why I am always right.

* Giving people the benefit of the doubt is a sign of weakness.

* I believe people should be presumed guilty until proven innocent.

* Don't ask me to explain why, I just KNOW things, and I'm seldom wrong.
 

Drifter

Honorary Master
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Messages
21,071
You left out man slaughter in the poll. I dont thnk he si guilty of murder, but def man slaughter.
 

thestaggy

Honorary Master
Joined
May 11, 2011
Messages
20,254
He's guilty of voluntary manslaughter, in my opinion. Crime of passion.
 

R13...

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
39,918
Is he even on trial for the reckless discharge of a firearm in public yet? I thought that was related to the restaurant under the table incident? Why is it in the poll?
 

ShaunSA

Derailment Squad
Joined
Sep 7, 2005
Messages
37,244
What a bizarre poll. And even more shocking are the responses. I am truly appalled ... never knew most people here were so narrow, prejudiced and unselfaware.

You might as well be asking people to tick one or more of the following:

* I am prejudiced. I judge people and situations before I know all the facts.

* I make up my mind about important matters based on feelings, intuitions, or impressions rather than on hearing and weighing all the evidence.

* Feelings always trump facts, which is why I am always right.

* Giving people the benefit of the doubt is a sign of weakness.

* I believe people should be presumed guilty until proven innocent.

* Don't ask me to explain why, I just KNOW things, and I'm seldom wrong.

It's an opinion. We all have one. Now get that stick out of your @rse :erm:
 
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