Is Parliament’s punishment of Pule enough?

Is Parliament’s punishment of Dina Pule enough?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2 2.7%
  • No

    Votes: 73 97.3%

  • Total voters
    75

chrisc

Executive Member
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Aug 14, 2008
Messages
7,321
No, I think she could become the SA ambassador to Vanatu or one of those obscure places in the Pacific Ocean
 

j4ck455

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
5,283
Dina Pule [highlight]cut a lonely figure[/highlight]
What does that mean exactly, did she send a proxy cardboard cut-out of herself to parliament, or maybe she attacked someone with a pair of scissors?

Last month, the director of the Hawks, Lieutenant General Anwa Dramat, told the Democratic Alliance (DA) that the crime unit was indeed investigating allegations of corruption against the former minister.
The Hawks have been sitting on that investigation for months now.
 

munky82

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
191
I want to say in this House that I gave the best I could do to do my job; and that if in the course of me doing my job, if I made a mistake I am sorry, I apologise,” said Pule.
if...IF...IF?! She still denies any wrongdoing. You cannot apologise if you don't accept that you were wrong. You only half-heartily apologise then for your smugness and/or ignorance.

She only confesses to incompetence and corruption - "I gave the best I could do to do my job"
 

Johand

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Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Messages
1,372
I think for anybody interested in this topic I would suggest reading the Financial Mail (16-21 Aug). There is an interview with Ben Turok about this and what he said is very enlightening:
1) There is a difference between unethical behavior and criminal behavior. Obviously criminal behavior is unethical.. but not always vice versa. The ethics committee is only concerns with ethics - they are not in charge in investigating the criminal aspects.
2) As such they make their findings on the balance of probability and not beyond reasonable doubt. Just because they find a person guilty does not mean they will be found guilty in a court of law.
3) Our constitution requires a separation of powers (judicial, legislative and executive). The Ethics Committee therefor purposefully does not communicate to law enforcement.

I do think all of the above points are valid and we should be careful that we don't try to make everybody play policemen :) The criminal aspect will only come from a separate and distinct investigation by the Hawks. Nothing will "flow" from the Ethics Committee. And that is the correct and right thing. The only issue is whether the Hawks will actually do something. Or maybe the Public Protector will get involved.
 

entrepr

Expert Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2005
Messages
2,103
We need a criminal investigation for sure. This won't give back the serious loss to the economy of lost opportunity but it will send the right message for sure
 

entrepr

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I think for anybody interested in this topic I would suggest reading the Financial Mail (16-21 Aug). There is an interview with Ben Turok about this and what he said is very enlightening:
...
I do think all of the above points are valid and we should be careful that we don't try to make everybody play policemen :) The criminal aspect will only come from a separate and distinct investigation by the Hawks. Nothing will "flow" from the Ethics Committee. And that is the correct and right thing. The only issue is whether the Hawks will actually do something. Or maybe the Public Protector will get involved.
OK, fair enough, but it would be great if the ANC took responsibility for laying charges and didn't leave it to the opposition each time
 

Shake&Bake

Party Liaison
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
21,248
I take it those two votes that she shouldn't be criminally investigated are from Dine Pule and Phosane Mngqibisa themselves?
 

FNfal

Executive Member
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Jul 6, 2011
Messages
5,588
She has admitted she is a lair with her own words , but her behavior is endemic in the ruling party .
 

Sodan

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What does that mean exactly, did she send a proxy cardboard cut-out of herself to parliament, or maybe she attacked someone with a pair of scissors?
Lol, it's a figure of speech, meaning she stood alone, without about support (moral or otherwise - though, under the circumstances, moral is a rather inappropriate word to be using in close proximity to her).

if...IF...IF?! She still denies any wrongdoing. You cannot apologise if you don't accept that you were wrong. You only half-heartily apologise then for your smugness and/or ignorance.

She only confesses to incompetence and corruption - "I gave the best I could do to do my job"
+100 Was gonna say the same thing.
 

falcon786

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Messages
9,521
No, I think she could become the SA ambassador to Vanatu or one of those obscure places in the Pacific Ocean
vanuatu_holiday2_500x375.jpgvanuatu2.jpgfatumaru-lodge.jpg
A tropical island paradise!

If you are an exec at a big firm please pm me your email address, I'll send you my CV.I really want to work for you if this is your idea of punishment.:p
 

Hemi300c

Honorary Master
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Messages
20,216
I see 2 have said yes, well please pm me your names so I know I need to hide my valuables if you are around...................
 

Johand

Expert Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Messages
1,372
I see 2 have said yes, well please pm me your names so I know I need to hide my valuables if you are around...................
I voted yes... but see my post for context. The ethics committee is not supposed to hand out the punishment for this. If there was criminal activity it needs to be handed out by a court of law with real repercussions. Look at it this way... if I were to kill somebody at work today then probably my bosses will tell me they are disappointed with me but the police should catch me and the justice system should lock me up. Going out and saying that my boss didn't punish me hard enough is kind of a pointless thing to say.

Let me be clear - I do hope that the Hawks investigate her fully and that this goes to the justice system. My point is that people should not make the ethics committee the policeman and judge here. It is ridiculous and frankly unconstitutional.
 

Johand

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Jan 21, 2005
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I voted yes... but see my post for context. The ethics committee is not supposed to hand out the punishment for this. If there was criminal activity it needs to be handed out by a court of law with real repercussions. Look at it this way... if I were to kill somebody at work today then probably my bosses will tell me they are disappointed with me but the police should catch me and the justice system should lock me up. Going out and saying that my boss didn't punish me hard enough is kind of a pointless thing to say.

Let me be clear - I do hope that the Hawks investigate her fully and that this goes to the justice system. My point is that people should not make the ethics committee the policeman and judge here. It is ridiculous and frankly unconstitutional.
Sorry I missed an important part: The penalty that was imposed by Parliament was the maximum Penalty allowed according to the Joint Rules of Parliament.
 
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