[ISOC.talk] 'Broadband Marxism'

dikbek

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This mail I received may be of interest.
------------------------------------------------------


Hallo all

This is interesting. Possibly controversial. Telkom cited as an example of... well read and find out :)

Anriette


Broadband Marxism
By Chris Sprigman, Peter Lurie

Foreign Policy
March/April 2004
Bridging the digital divide will require poor nations to reverse the privatization of their telecommunications networks.

Politicians and economists in developing countries searching for new technologies to create jobs and spur economic growth need look no further than their desks. The most vital technology for sparking development is a familiar and unglamorous one: the telephone. In many poor nations, telephone service is available only in large cities—at a price few can afford— and the more widely available mobile phone service remains expensive. As a result, at least 1.5 million villages in poor nations lack basic telephone service. Guatemala has just 65 telephones for every 1,000 people; Pakistan, 23; Nigeria, 5; and Burma, 4. By comparison, the United States has 667 telephones per 1,000 people. Manhattan alone boasts more telephone lines than all of Africa.

During the 1990s economic boom, many developing nations invested in laying fiber-optic lines, building satellite relay stations, and connecting to transoceanic cable—the high-capacity “backbone” elements of telephone networks that transport data. So why does the 128-year-old telephone remain out of reach for more than 3 billion people? In part, because the cost of bridging the “last mile” from national network to local customer vastly exceeds potential returns in countries such as Colombia, where annual per capita spending on telecommunications is just $231 (in the United States, it’s $2,924).

Two new technologies offer a potentially quick solution: wireless- fidelity networks (Wi-Fi) and voice calling over the Internet (VoIP).
Wi-Fi uses small, low-power antennas to carry voice and data communications between a backbone and users at schools, businesses, and households, all without laying a single wire, greatly reducing the cost of traversing the last mile. Laying land lines can cost up to $300 per foot. Wi-Fi hardware is fitted to existing structures for about $10,000 per base station—a reasonable sum, considering that one Wi-Fi station can provide access to thousands of residences within two miles and that the antennas that attach to customers’ homes cost less than $100.

VoIP technology sends telephone calls over the Internet inexpensively by transforming people’s voices into data “packets.”
Conventional phone service requires an open line at either end of a call—an expensive service, not least because every conversation pause wastes bandwidth. By chopping words and pauses into tiny packages that are routed through the least congested part of the Internet, computers make VoIP calls much cheaper. In the United States today, a phone call using VoIP service costs less than half of a call made using traditional telephony; these savings can be duplicated in developing countries.

Together, Wi-Fi and VoIP can make telephone service affordable and accessible in poor countries. But for developing nations to benefit, their governments must rethink who owns the telecommunications networks. Put simply, it’s a bad idea to have a monopoly, whether government or private, both control the network backbone and provide retail services to consumers. Such arrangements lead to higher prices and less competitive services.

Consider Telkom, the owner and operator of South Africa’s telephone network, a formerly state-owned monopoly that was privatized between 1997 and 2003. Despite enjoying an advanced network backbone, Telkom does not offer basic telephone service to a majority of South Africans. Because it depends on revenues from phone calls, Telkom has little incentive to offer cheap VoIP service. South African law dictates that only Telkom and “under- serviced area licensees” (small firms in rural areas) are allowed to offer VoIP, yet the government has not approved a single under- serviced area licensee. So today, for a variety of regulatory reasons, only Telkom can provide VoIP. For competitive reasons, it does not.

Developing countries can break such strangleholds by renationalizing their network backbones, liberating them from the retail business of servicing consumers. Although state monopolies provided infamously poor service, running a network core is easier than providing retail services. State-owned network backbones can operate on a non-profit basis, providing access to private companies that compete to service local customers in villages and towns. It’s not that the ordinary bias favoring private ownership and free markets is misguided. Nor are telecommunications networks too critical a public service to be left to free markets. Rather, networks in developing countries have never been subject to real competition. Ironically, a publicly owned backbone would level the playing field and increase competition among retail providers, leading to innovative services at lower prices.

One model for success can be found in Utah, where authorities in Salt Lake City and 17 surrounding towns have formed the Utah Telecommunications Open Infrastructure Agency (utopia), building a high-speed network for 250,000 households and 35,000 businesses. The government owns the backbone, but does not sell Internet or VoIP service directly to customers. Instead, utopia is open to anyone wishing to sell broadband service.

Can the same model work in the developing world, where money and accountability are more elusive? Yes, for two reasons. First, Wi- Fi and VoIP flip the traditional telecommunications model on its head. The network backbone has only one objective (delivering data via a small set of universal procedures), leaving governments with a simpler job. Delivering local service is harder. Traditional telecommunications models are the opposite: The telephone is simple; the circuit-switched network is complex. And while a private monopolist has every incentive to charge an exorbitant price and increase profits at the expense of consumers, a public monopoly lacks that impulse. Nonetheless, to ensure that consumers benefit, an independent, nonprofit organization could jointly administer the backbone network with a government agency. To increase efficiency, the daily operations of the backbone could be leased to a private entity.

Such renationalization of network backbones would be expensive for developing countries, but the costs are not insurmountable.
Governments could buy back network backbones using long-term debt funded by revenues flowing from the operating lease. A properly structured public debt issuance would assuage foreign investors’ fears of a broader nationalization campaign.

In developing countries, telecommunications lead to more jobs, improved health care, and higher levels of education. The renationalization of telecommunications backbones is analogous to the state-funded building of roads. Roads and highways increase a nation’s wealth by enabling commerce. In poor nations, the same can be true of the information superhighway, if politicians choose technology over ideology.

Chris Sprigman is a fellow at the Stanford Law School Center for Internet and Society. Peter Lurie is general counsel at Virgin Mobile
USA.

------------------------------------------------------
Anriette Esterhuysen, Executive Director Association for Progressive Communications anriette@apc.org http://www.apc.org PO Box 29755, Melville, South Africa. 2109 Tel. 27 11 726 1692 Fax 27 11 726 1692


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Jerrek

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Every socialist's dream. Yay.


Worst. Idea. Ever. But, if the People want it, let them have it.
 

caroper

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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jerrek</i>
<br />Every socialist's dream. Yay.


Worst. Idea. Ever. But, if the People want it, let them have it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Thanks for the first world input jerrek, but this is Africa, and like it or not African Socialism comes before democracy. We all hope that South Africa can brake that mold, but we still need to nurture the progress, negative attitudes, especially from developed countries will not help us.

dikbek, great read, what was the source?
It may be worth passing on to the press is copyright permits.

Cheers,
Chris
 

dikbek

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Look at http://www.isoc.org/ and http://www.apc.org/english/index.shtml
 

reech

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Great article dikbek - thanks - Jerrek -- pls explain why you think it's such a bad idea.
 

MaD

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Hey, thanks Jerrek.

<b>Where others have progress, we have Telkom.</b>
Hellkom website - http://telkomsucks.0catch.com
 

Jerrek

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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by reech</i>
<br />Great article dikbek - thanks - Jerrek -- pls explain why you think it's such a bad idea.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
As a capitalist I'm opposed to everything that does not promote competition.
 

podo

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Jerek,

You seem to be missing the point entirely. The suggestion made in that article would actually promote compettition if you look at it from the small to medium sized enterprise perspective.

The use of a government owned infrastructure and providing free access to it for any business willing to re-sell service is probably what allows you to use your blazingly fast and sickeningly underpriced Canadian internet connection :)

Basically, what they are proposing here is to have the government own the main communications infrastructure, but to make access to this infrastructure freely available to any business willing to sell consumer communications services.

This means that more businesses would be able to start selling telephone service, internet access and other communications services without having to make the massive investment in infrastructure.

Private infrastructure on the other hand might discourage compettition. Rolling out a full scale communications network in a large country isn't cheap, especially if that country is economically handicapped in relation to the rest of the world, as we are.

In a private infrastructure environment, where consumers do business directly with the infrastructure owner, only very few, very large businesses can hope to compete in the market. Need I remind you that large corporations aren't generally known for encouraging compettition?

However, if you suffer from the misconception that Ayn Rand was right, and subscribe to the twisted philosophy of Objectivism, which defines "fair compettition" as "crushing your business opponents and taking the market hostage", which would, for instance, condone the way Microsoft do business globally and the way Telkom do business here in South Africa, then yes, this is a bad idea.

If you're a small or medium sized South African enterprise, which would be able to benifit by using the national infrastructure to provide superior service to a smaller customer base, and compete with other enterprises doing the same thing, then this is an excellent idea.

I am very sure that the consumer would be serviced better by such an arrangement. Especially where providers are allowed to overlap in the same area. If your provider is not giving you the service you feel you deserve, you just cancel your contract and use somebody else.

Currently, there is no "somebody else" because nobody has the money to build a national telecommunications infrastructure, unless they are a huge corporation, that never cares about its customers and seldom provide any service at all, or a government, who would otherwise spend the money invested in the infrastructure on wild parties on secluded islands for its top members.

Willie Viljoen
Web Developer

Adaptive Web Development
 

Jerrek

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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Jerek,

You seem to be missing the point entirely. The suggestion made in that article would actually promote compettition if you look at it from the small to medium sized enterprise perspective.

The use of a government owned infrastructure and providing free access to it for any business willing to re-sell service is probably what allows you to use your blazingly fast and sickeningly underpriced Canadian internet connection :)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Incorrect. The cables are owned by my cable company. The telephone lines are owned by those who installed it. The government does not own any of the telecom infrastructure.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Basically, what they are proposing here is to have the government own the main communications infrastructure, but to make access to this infrastructure freely available to any business willing to sell consumer communications services.

This means that more businesses would be able to start selling telephone service, internet access and other communications services without having to make the massive investment in infrastructure.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Thats nice. But it doesn't work that way. Government ownership is a very bad concept. Government is there for only one thing: protection of individual rights.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Private infrastructure on the other hand might discourage compettition.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Right, which is why we have numerous cable companies and 100+ DSL providers. No competition at all.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Rolling out a full scale communications network in a large country isn't cheap, especially if that country is economically handicapped in relation to the rest of the world, as we are.

In a private infrastructure environment, where consumers do business directly with the infrastructure owner, only very few, very large businesses can hope to compete in the market. Need I remind you that large corporations aren't generally known for encouraging compettition?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Here's a better idea. Repeal any and all laws regarding telecom regulation. Let any company, anyone, put their own cables in the ground and provide voice and data services. Want to bet how many people would be interested in just putting CABLE for cable TV into new neighborhoods? Want to bet how many companies would be interested in just putting fiber in in the business districts?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">However, if you suffer from the misconception that Ayn Rand was right, and subscribe to the twisted philosophy of Objectivism, which defines "fair compettition" as "crushing your business opponents and taking the market hostage", which would, for instance, condone the way Microsoft do business globally and the way Telkom do business here in South Africa, then yes, this is a bad idea.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
You're quite delusional and from this it seems you have absolutely no understanding at all what Ayn Rand is about.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If you're a small or medium sized South African enterprise, which would be able to benifit by using the national infrastructure to provide superior service to a smaller customer base, and compete with other enterprises doing the same thing, then this is an excellent idea.

I am very sure that the consumer would be serviced better by such an arrangement. Especially where providers are allowed to overlap in the same area. If your provider is not giving you the service you feel you deserve, you just cancel your contract and use somebody else.

Currently, there is no "somebody else" because nobody has the money to build a national telecommunications infrastructure, unless they are a huge corporation, that never cares about its customers and seldom provide any service at all, or a government, who would otherwise spend the money invested in the infrastructure on wild parties on secluded islands for its top members.

Willie Viljoen
Web Developer

Adaptive Web Development<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Fine. You go ahead. I really couldn't care. Nationalize everything and force everyone to use the wonderful government fiber. We all know government is the most efficient institution ever created, and that prohibiting free enterprise and preventing people from putting in their own fiber and cables is the way to go. Afterall, in order to make South Africa really connected, one must do one's best to prevent anyone from installing their own cables, because God-forbid they hook themselves up to the neighbor without using the State's cables.

Maybe if you're lucky you will end up with a infrastructure like the former U.S.S.R who also hated Ayn Rand and her philosophies of free markets and objectivism.

Meanwhile, I'll enjoy my 10Mb PRIVATELY OWNED cable which is competing with other PRIVATELY OWNED companies.
 

reech

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We seem to be able to trust the state with - the transport infrastructure- why not the information?
Jerrek - I think you have many valid points, however in South Africa's unique situation, such a model might not be such a bad idea to kickstart the e-conomy (providing it's accompanied by de-regulation)- and since Telkom is the sole provider of bandwidth anyway.
 

antowan

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Telkom can also be broken up in little baby Telkom's (like the baby Bell's) in the US. Let it compete against itself...

[:)]

Why not?

Cheers

He who does not understand the value of war at the right time, cannot comprehend the value of life at any time - Anonymous
 

Jerrek

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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by reech</i>
<br />We seem to be able to trust the state with - the transport infrastructure- why not the information?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I don't... I'd privatize it all. Have you seen the state of our roads? Crappiest in the world. I'm sure your roads are better than ours.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Jerrek - I think you have many valid points, however in South Africa's unique situation, such a model might not be such a bad idea to kickstart the e-conomy (providing it's accompanied by de-regulation)- and since Telkom is the sole provider of bandwidth anyway.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Take a page from South Korea and learn from it. 30 years ago they had the same problem. The government did put money into it, but they don't own the infrastructure. Today they are the number 2 broadband country in the world behind Japan.
 

MaD

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The privatization thing would probably be perfect for South Africa - if it weren't for the money-grubbing Yanks trying to take us for all we're worth.

If privatization here will lead to the same kind of competition as in the States, UK and Canada, count me in.

For the moment tho until SBC gets the f**k out of our country the prices will remain high. I personally am hoping for a huge crash in the SA Telecoms market - then every player will have to re-think their position, and pricing, from scratch.

Anyhow, 90% of our country cannot afford a telephone line as it is.

<font color="navy"><font size="1"><b>Where others have progress, we have Telkom.</b>
Hellkom website - http://telkomsucks.0catch.com</font id="size1"></font id="navy">
 

Jerrek

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Take some ****ing personal responsibility. Repeat after me: It is not the rest of the world's fault that Telkom is such a nasty company. Your DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT made a transaction with another company and sold off portions of Telkom. Both entered into the transaction, and the terms were acceptable.

Now once again: Take a note from South Korea. Complete privatization lead to it becoming the number 2 broadband country in the world. Show me a country with this Marxist philosophy that works, and I will show you an honest liar.

Why don't YOU buy some shares in Telkom? It is profitable.
 

MaD

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How the **** can I take some personal responsibility - I DON'T RUN THE GODDAMN GOVERNMENT!

Like I said in another post - I'm all for privatization if it leads to competition like it did overseas - but at the moment the whole country is getting screwed.

Please explain to me why the MAJORITY of black people cannot afford telephone lines. Come on, you know it all so tell me why. Should THEY take some responsibility? Read my page http://telkomsucks.0catch.com/about.htm - it pretty much sums it up.

Fact of the matter is if we didn't have any overseas involvement, prices would still be acceptable because the company would have been run by South Africans - not a bunch of bloody aliens sucking us dry.

If Telkom WANTED to lower its prices and offer universal acces it COULD. Government isn't preventing that. But Telkom-cum-SBC are Capitalists, I forgot. So then it's their fault, as I've been saying all along. Reply with quote starts here&gt;


<font color="navy"><font size="1"><b>Where others have progress, we have Telkom.</b>
Hellkom website - http://telkomsucks.0catch.com</font id="size1"></font id="navy">
 

Perdition

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Unfortunately things are not so simple Jerrek. The majority of voters in this country don't even have running water let alone care about what the government is doing with our telecommunications industry... so while our government may be democratically elected it certainly is not the choice of the educated.

Also at this point I should ask why you have such an interest in SA? You seem intent on drilling your ideologies into everyone but what you don't seem to understand is how difficult it is to change the system here. We have a total bunch of incompetents in positions that are vitally important to the growth of the country and there is stuff all we can do about it until the rest of the country gets educated.

We may seem like a bunch of whiners who should take personal responsibility but unless you actually live here and have to deal with our system you have absolutely NO idea what is involved. Perhaps you should come over here and preach your ideologies to our government and see how far you get... I'm pretty sure you'd be on the next plane back to Canada [;)]
 

ASF

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I for one agree with Jerrek. Govt owned telco's as a really cr*p idea. Yes we have a unique dynamic at play in SA but the principles of a free market capatalistic economy is, in my opinion, the only way to go. Socialist ideals do not work in the real world...

What we need is a Minister of Telecommunications who actually knows how to use a telephone 1st. [;)]

As to the example of "utopia" - please - get a life - Utah? Bah ha ha...
 

lewstherin

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Hmmm...I must say I'm bummed to have missed this debate thus far...but now I'll have a say. Hopefully we can quit swearing each other and get back to a more civilised debate?

At this point in time I have to side with Jerrek's deregulation argument, but I have several observations/modifications to make:

1.) Privatisation is pointless if the government fails to deregulate the market completely - and this is exactly what has happened in SA. The worst consumer model in classical economics is a monopoly, and all the GOVT did by privatising Telkom without opening up the market was make it more efficient at ripping off the consumer.
Hence lets not blame capitalism here for the state of telecoms in this country - lets blame the poor implementation of policy by our dear (sic) ANC govt.

2.) Competition will only benefit the consumer when it is allowed to run free: Jerrek's analogy of deregulating to the extent of anybody being able to provide telecoms infrastructure sounds brilliant to me. If the govt. ruled that tomorrow, I guarantee I would purchase a 512k Sentech line and share it with my neighbours over a Wi-Fi network. The end result would be more contended bandwidth for my neighbours and I 'cos we could afford to split costs.
I personally would like to see nothing more than At&T pull into SA and duke it out with Telkom, BT, DT and Sentech - that kind of competition would drive prices down and bring bandwidth up. And if prices drop then more ppl will be able to get lines.
Many people see this scenario as a threat to SA - I say hasn't Telkom already shed 20000+ jobs under SBC? More competition means more telecoms jobs, more FDI (as foreign companies roll out infrastructure), a whole new market to play in (broadband [}:)]), and countless new opportunities economy-wide for increasing efficiencies using technology that previously was hellishly expensive - like video-conferencing, e-economics etc.

3.) Market failure is where government should get involved. I'm sure that big business and high income would benefit from a telecoms brawl as described by point 2. To ensure that low income benefits, govt could set rollout or area targets for any new player. I have no doubt AT&T or any other such big telco could afford to throw up a radio link in a rural area nad give ppl free local calls without breaking a sweat.

Over all the only kind of competition that will really give us true consumer benefits is one that models perfect competition. Bad news folks - a SNO alone is not going to fix telecoms here, so quit holding your breath. I mean look at cell cos. We have three providers, and their pricing is almost identical - why? because they are basically running like a cartel - why drop prices if you can charge the same as the others and not lose customers...
The same thing will happen with the SNO - they will no doubt also charge for local calls, limit ADSL, etc...the reason being because their "competition" already does without losing customers.

The only way you bust this scenario is to open it up to anyone that can buy the license - which one hopes is priced reasonably. That way the wildcard foreign company can rock up and suddenly undercut the market with cheap pricing due to better tech or something like that...the result is a forceable adjustment of market prices by all other players in order to prevent haemoraging customers.
The cool thing about perfect competition is that if the govt wants to build their own network, thats fine too...however given the "survival of the fittest" mantra of perfect competition methinks the govt. telco would be the first to fail...followed shortly by Hellkom [:D]

<font color="blue">Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the </font id="blue"><font color="red">SA consumer</font id="red"><font color="blue"> needs to make it happen</font id="blue">
 

martin

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Nicely said lewstherin. I share the same feelings about the SNO. I get the feeling it'll have pretty the same effect Cell C had on cellphone market - very little. Call rates dropping a few cents is not my idea of competition. The answer in my humble opinion is deregulation.
 

MaD

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What I said earlier was that I agree with Jerrek regarding the privatization thing.

I was attacked once again by Jerrek, even after agreeing with him, but he seems to be incredibly protective of his ideals and of Telkom. Personal responsibility is not a factor - I have not once voted for the Government which we have in place now. They can't run a bath, let a lone a country.

So don't even talk about your precious "personal responsibility", alright? Thank you.



<font color="navy"><font size="1"><b>Where others have progress, we have Telkom.</b>
Hellkom website - http://telkomsucks.0catch.com</font id="size1"></font id="navy">
 
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