Israel stole land from Palestinians for settlements

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SuperAntMD

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JBFRobisher said:
I see your contribution has been the single word "Succinct".
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Too true, but at least I haven't tried to derail the debate with unnecessary name calling. Debates work very simply someone states something then someone else tries to disprove it using facts and logic. Name calling is immature behavior to mask the fact that the person doesn't actually have a point to make. I was simply calling for a continuance of adult debate, in the absence of unpleasantness.
 
rwenzori

rwenzori

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SuperAntMD said:
Try looking here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah
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Hokeydokey!

Halibut:
Israel became a nation-state in 1312 B.C, 2,000 years before the rise of Islam, and was a nation before that.
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Your wiki article:
The Hebrews migrated into Canaan circa 1200 BCE, a time when the great powers of the region were neutralized by troubles of various kinds. In their initial attacks under Joshua, the Hebrews occupied most of Canaan, which they settled according to traditional family lines derived from the sons of Jacob and Joseph (the "tribes" of Israel). No formal government existed and the people were led by ad hoc leaders (the "judges" of the biblical Book of Judges) in times of crisis. Around this time, the name "Israel" is first mentioned in a contemporary archaeological source, the Merneptah Stele.
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Halibut:
The Arabs conquered Palestine in 635 AD, stealing it from its legitimate Jewish rulers
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Mideast Web http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm :
Under Joshua, they conquered the tribes and city states of Canaan.
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Thus stealing the land from the "legitimate" Canaanites, including Philistines ( whose name led to the term Palestine ).
 
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Paul_S

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JBFRobisher said:
And why should they have been? They want their land back.
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Who says the land belongs to "palestinians" or the israelis?
If you go back far enough you'll probably find that the original groups of people in Canaan were slaughtered or kicked out as well.
I don't think one will ever find out who the original cave dwellers and hence legitimate "owners" really were.

The problem is it's not really about land - it's about the existence of the Jewish people.
Most of the Arab countries want the Jews to be totally annihilated. Land is just the fuel for the fire.
 
rwenzori

rwenzori

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Paul_S said:
Who says the land belongs to "palestinians" or the israelis?
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They were kicked out in 1948. Some "Facts":

In 1880 there were 24,000 Jews living among 450,000 Palestinians.
In 1914 there were 56,000 Jews living among 715,000 Palestinians.
In 1922 there were 83,000 Jews living among 663,000 Palestinians.
In 1936 there were 385,400 Jews living among 983,200 Palestinians.
In 1940 there were 467,000 Jews living among 1,050,000 Palestinians.
In 1946 there were 600,000 Jews living among 1,300,000 Palestinians.
In 1948 there were 155,000 Palestinians living among 716,700 Jews.
In 1951 there were 173,000 Palestinians living among 1,577,000 Jews.

BEFORE 1948 THERE WERE 475 PALESTINIAN TOWNS AND VILLAGES IN PALESTINE.

SINCE THEN 385 OF THESE HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY ERASED FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH
(USUALLY BULLDOZED), BY THE JEWS/ISRAELIS.
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http://thewebfairy.com/nerdcities/Palestine/facts.htm
 
Nick333

Nick333

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rwenzori said:
They were kicked out in 1948. Some "Facts":



http://thewebfairy.com/nerdcities/Palestine/facts.htm
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Something that the Zionists and there supporters like to forget though its far from being a secret is that Zionists movements were importing Jewish immigrants to the region since the late 19th century for the not exactly secret reason of creating a Jewish majority in the region. They didnt actually wait to become a majority in the region because they were given more than 50 % of Palestine to create their state by the british who were leaving anyway. The holocost had of course ensured them all the western support they would ever need.

So what if the Arab countries refused to absorb the refugees? Doing so would have given the new illigitimate, zionist state exactly what they wanted.
The Israeli claims that Arab leaders encouraged Arabs to leave Israel are grossly exagerated I challenge Halicon to come up with more than three documented cases for this claim.

Also Halicon mate Muslims pray to mecca - assuming you got that list entirely from one source why would you choose to believe any of it when it has this one glaring fabrication in it?
 
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Paul_S

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rwenzori said:
They were kicked out in 1948.
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You didn't get my point.
Who was there in Canaan BEFORE the Arabs/Philistines/whoever settled?
Like who was there 10000 years ago?

It is believed that the Philistines (who make up a part of the what we now call Palestinians were not native to the area at all) actually came from the Mycenean world in mainland Greece. In other words they weren't native to the Middle East.

Who's land it really is depends on how far back into history one chooses to look.
 
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mancombseepgood

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Hey rwenzori...

rwenzori said:
They were kicked out in 1948. Some "Facts":



http://thewebfairy.com/nerdcities/Palestine/facts.htm
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Where are you from? I get the feeling that by your own standards you should just be passing through wherever it is you live right now. Does this mean you will be leaving soon and handing over your property to someone else? I assume you also believe it belonged to someone who lived there prior to 1948? Why 1948? Why's that a special number? Why are the last 100 years or 1000 years the magic number for that matter? So do you believe Jews living in Germany should go back and demand their land back? Where should Jews live in your opinion? Just wondering?
 
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rwenzori

rwenzori

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Paul_S said:
Who's land it really is depends on how far back into history one chooses to look.
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I agree. What I do object to, however, is the use of ancient ownership by haliwhatever/Israelis/Zionists to justify their illegal occupation of the land as in such bits as:

halicon said:
1. Nationhood and Jerusalem. Israel became a nation-state in 1312 B.C, 2,000 years before the rise of Islam, and was a nation before that.

3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C., the Jews have had dominion over the land for 1,000 years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.

4. The Arabs conquered Palestine in 635 AD, stealing it from its legitimate Jewish rulers, ...

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. ...
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There are many living Palestinians whose privately owned land has been taken over by Israel - see the post that started the thread. One can debate the legitimacy of 1948, but the land grabs of the 6-day war ( Gaza strip, West Bank of ye olde Jordan river ) have no justification whatever.
 
rwenzori

rwenzori

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Onepostwonder said:
Why 1948? Why's that a special number? Why are the last 100 years or 1000 years the magic number for that matter? So do you believe Jews living in Germany should go back and demand their land back? Where should Jews live in your opinion? Just wondering?
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The State of Israel was proclaimed on May 14, 1948, one day before the expiry of the Palestine Mandate.
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- Wikipedia.

I certainly do believe that the Jews ( the surviving ones in any event ) should have been given their property back after WW2.

The Jews can live on the land now called Israel if they so wish. But not to the exclusion of the Palestinians. What you effectively have is a great big apartheid arrangement - the Jews have Israel, the Palestinians have a mess of a "homeland", where they are seriously oppressed. Just as here in SA, it should all be one country with one man one vote. ( I am not saying there would not be massive land disputes . ) But that ain't going to happen.
 
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nocilah

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rwenzori said:
I can find no source anywhere to corroborate Halibut's claims. I can find sources wot sez different. Hence I deduce crap.
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thanks you have proved how far you can think: Halibut. You sir can not debate so go back and fix pc's or woteva you do for a livin, cuz you will never make it in an intellectual arena as you have clearly demonstrated to me and this community.

I trust waiting for anything remotely similar to thinking from your behalf would be futile.
 
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nocilah

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Nick333 said:
Also Halicon mate Muslims pray to mecca - assuming you got that list entirely from one source why would you choose to believe any of it when it has this one glaring fabrication in it?
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You forget, Mecca is not in Jerusalem. Hence when in Israel the MUslims turn their back to Jeraslem when parying. So please explain the 'fabrication'.

Trust me this list is not new. It doesnt exist on one site. They are simply 20 facts and judging by the inability for anyone here to disaprove them they stand as that, FACTS.
 
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nocilah

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chiskop said:
Don't worry to provide links to back up your facts:

I found your links right here: Rapture Ready.
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thats is one location out of many. do some research. disprove the facts - if you can.

er.... no i didnt get it form there. I have this fact list for a while and in trying to disprove like the people here i realised you cant disprove it because it is fact.

simple. end of discussion.
 
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