Israel stole land from Palestinians for settlements

rwenzori

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You forget, Mecca is not in Jerusalem. Hence when in Israel the MUslims turn their back to Jeraslem when parying. So please explain the 'fabrication'.

Ah, but in sunny SA, they virtually FACE Jerusalem-the-golden when praying. You list of so-called facts is such hogwash it astounds me anyone could take it seriously. Or do you also believe in the Illuminati?
 

Skeptik

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rwenzori
You had to quote from Bint Jbeil to get those 'facts', didn't you. Maybe you should remember the name of that Lebanese city that Israel captured from Hesbollocks - yes- "Bint Jbeil". That tells us just how skewed YOUR references are. LOL
 

Xarog

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Oh good lord I cannot believe someone actually was so stupid as to quote such a ridiculous piece of propaganda. Halicon, you earn yourself a noddy badge.

1. Nationhood and Jerusalem. Israel became a nation-state in 1312 B.C, 2,000 years before the rise of Islam, and was a nation before that.
IRRELEVANT.

2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.
So who cares what the **** they call themselves? They've been living there the whole time. Besides, given the closeness of the name Palestine to Philistine, I'm shocked anyone really thinks they weren't living there the whole time.

3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C., the Jews have had dominion over the land for 1,000 years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
So then I guess it's OK to take a land by conquest, huh? Why the hell are the Israeli's then moaning that the Arab world wants to annihilate them? Fair's fair, if we go by this ridiculous standard.

4. The Arabs conquered Palestine in 635 AD, stealing it from its legitimate Jewish rulers, who had evicted the Byzantines while being led by a woman general, one Hefzibah, who then restored Jewish sovereignty. Palestine was stolen from the Jews by the Arabs and not the other way around. Arab sovereignty over Palestine ended in 1071 when the area was conquered by Seljuk Turks. “Palestinian” Arabs never held sovereignty over “Palestine” and cannot even pronounce the name of their supposed “homeland”. They cannot say “Palestine”.
I thought it was OK to take a land by conquest? What's this "stolen" nonsense?

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
But the real issue is, how many arabs have been living IN Jerusalem?

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Qur'an (Koran).

7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.
IRRELEVANT

This is not about ****ing religions! It's about two groups of people fighting over the same land. What nonsense. Arabs were living in the area LONG before the rise of Islam. There are Palestinian Jews and Christians too!

I've got a statue in the back of my garden - I pray facing it every morning. It's the Statue of the Divine Xarog. Does that suddenly mean I've got sole rights to live in S.A. and the rest of you must all **** off, because you don't pray facing my statue?

9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: In 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.
IRRELEVANT

10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
And how many of them ever saw arab soldiers? :rolleyes:

And hey, I guess we'll conveniently ignore the barbarity described in the Torah when the Israelites first came to the region. I mean, genocide doesn't matter if it happened in biblical times, right? :cool:
11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be between 400,000 and 630,000, many of whom in fact were allowed to return after the Israeli war of Independence ended.. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be much larger.
Irrelevant.

12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, the Arabs are the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country smaller than the state of New Jersey.
What stupidity. Why don't the Zulus and Xhosas share the same lands, they're both black, right? Or what about the Scots and the English?

13. The Arab - Israeli Conflict: The Arabs are represented by 22 independent states, not including what Israel has offered the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended herself each time and won.
Bull****. Israel has instigated wars on many occasions.

14. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. In the 1990s Israel gave the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them with weapons.
Israel is a racist state which discriminates against people on unjustified grounds such as ethnic origins and religious beliefs. Anyone in their right mind should want to see this racist state destroyed, just like the racist state that was Apartheid South Africa should have been (and was) destroyed.

15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
Bull****. Israel has bulldozed plenty of mosques in order to make way for synagogues or settlements and the like.

16. The United Nations (U.N.) Record on Israel and the Arabs: Of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.

17. Of the 690 U.N. General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.
Yeah, the world really hates the Jews... :rolleyes:

Or maybe, just MAYBE Israel is actually a racist entity which deserves to be censured.

18. The U.N. was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians. Kind of like its silence over the massacres of Algerians or Sudanese by Arab fascists.

19. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.

20. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like policy of preventing Jews from visiting their holy sites at the Temple Mount and the Western Wall. Similar discrimination against Jews has continued under Israeli rule.
One wonders how many things the UN has been silent about regarding Israel's abuses... But I guess propaganda pieces don't really care to look at both sides of the story.

The above are FACTS so before you think of initiating your africanised logic into this debate do some research, and maybe with the spirit of revolution that you come blundering along with the jaded remarks into this forum you can maybe initiate some intelligent and rational comments. (although thats like asking sa to pull off 2010)
Facts? This nonsense? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Everything i have mentioned is FACT and i have yet to see you or anyone here disprove any of these facts that i have mentioned. All you can do is write self righteous, brown nosed, pro-stupid rubbish.
Well, I have yet to see you disprove that I've got a statue of Xarog in my back garden. You can leave me your house keys on the way to the airport, I live close-by.

thanks you have proved how far you can think: Halibut. You sir can not debate so go back and fix pc's or woteva you do for a livin, cuz you will never make it in an intellectual arena as you have clearly demonstrated to me and this community.

I trust waiting for anything remotely similar to thinking from your behalf would be futile.
I still don't know whether I want to laugh or cry. You post nonsense such as this and then you accuse other people of not having the capacity to debate because they don't accept the nonsense you post. :rolleyes:

show me palestine on a map.
Go look at any map of the area in 1900. The whole place was a british colony, called... *drumroll*... Palestine!
 

rwenzori

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Oh good lord I cannot believe someone actually was so stupid as to quote such a ridiculous piece of propaganda.

Well that blasts Halicat's FACTS into deserved oblivion! They're FACTS I tell you FACTS FACTS! FACTS!!!! Rsole! LOL :D
 

mancombseepgood

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I certainly do believe that the Jews ( the surviving ones in any event ) should have been given their property back after WW2. The Jews can live on the land now called Israel if they so wish. But not to the exclusion of the Palestinians. What you effectively have is a great big apartheid arrangement - the Jews have Israel, the Palestinians have a mess of a "homeland", where they are seriously oppressed. Just as here in SA, it should all be one country with one man one vote. ( I am not saying there would not be massive land disputes . ) But that ain't going to happen.

I do agree with you on this. Unfortunately, there are nuts on both sides of the fence swinging the pendulum for the sake of it. I don't believe it's all one sided. For land redistribution, you have to have willful sacrifice unfortunately, and that's not likely.
 

nocilah

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So who cares what the **** they call themselves? They've been living there the whole time. Besides, given the closeness of the name Palestine to Philistine, I'm shocked anyone really thinks they weren't living there the whole time.

This fact comes from the bible the same source for the stuff that you label irrelevant

So then I guess it's OK to take a land by conquest, huh? Why the hell are the Israeli's then moaning that the Arab world wants to annihilate them? Fair's fair, if we go by this ridiculous standard.
its the arabs who moan.

I thought it was OK to take a land by conquest? What's this "stolen" nonsense?
i dunno, the arabs and you guys are going off about stolen nonsense

This is not about ****ing religions! It's about two groups of people fighting over the same land. What nonsense. Arabs were living in the area LONG before the rise of Islam. There are Palestinian Jews and Christians too!

show me this?

I've got a statue in the back of my garden - I pray facing it every morning. It's the Statue of the Divine Xarog. Does that suddenly mean I've got sole rights to live in S.A. and the rest of you must all **** off, because you don't pray facing my statue?
um... no it means you are an idiot?


And hey, I guess we'll conveniently ignore the barbarity described in the Torah when the Israelites first came to the region. I mean, genocide doesn't matter if it happened in biblical times, right? :cool:

You should choose to either dismiss the bible or not not use it when it suits your needs

What stupidity. Why don't the Zulus and Xhosas share the same lands, they're both black, right? Or what about the Scots and the English?

um? You obvioulsy forgot to think with this one

Bull****. Israel has instigated wars on many occasions.
which war?

Israel is a racist state which discriminates against people on unjustified grounds such as ethnic origins and religious beliefs. Anyone in their right mind should want to see this racist state destroyed, just like the racist state that was Apartheid South Africa should have been (and was) destroyed.

ohh. show me the Israeli laws that show this. Or how about a little bit of evidence?

When I went into Saudi Arabia if you are Israeli, Jewish or have visited Israel they do not let you in the country - that sounds like Apartheid to me.

Bull****. Israel has bulldozed plenty of mosques in order to make way for synagogues or settlements and the like.

Must i believe this because you say so? Show me a news article where they have?

Facts? This nonsense? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
um you havent disproved anything you have simply shared your pathetic oppinion but i have yet to see any proof of what you have tried to disprove.

So um... yeah


I still don't know whether I want to laugh or cry. You post nonsense such as this and then you accuse other people of not having the capacity to debate because they don't accept the nonsense you post. :rolleyes:

Well you have not debated the facts. If you cannot accept what i have posted... shame.

Go look at any map of the area in 1900. The whole place was a british colony, called... *drumroll*... Palestine!

dude - HELLO - its 2006
 

nocilah

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Ah, but in sunny SA, they virtually FACE Jerusalem-the-golden when praying. You list of so-called facts is such hogwash it astounds me anyone could take it seriously. Or do you also believe in the Illuminati?

fact - you have failed to utilise an ounce of intellect but instead are dealing with this like an emotional child - much like others, but then it really is bllind leading the blind.

We are not talking about Muslims in SA - We are talking about MUslims in ISRAEL. Really dude, i expected more of a challenge, but right now you are failing
 

rwenzori

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fact - you have failed to utilise an ounce of intellect but instead are dealing with this like an emotional child - much like others, but then it really is bllind leading the blind.

Give it a break man. You just make yourself look more stupid each time you post.
 

nocilah

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Give it a break man. You just make yourself look more stupid each time you post.

that is your oppinion - something you have failed to negotiate within this debate, although there really is no debate.

I didnt write the facts i simply posted them and acknowledged them :)

It is you among others trying to tell me that these facts are wrong but in trying to tell me this you simply have been name calling, giving some pretty absurd poor reasons to state these facts are wrong and in general bumbling about like clowns in a nuclear powerstation.

So I am trying to figure out why you consider this stupid, but then i realised i will never be able to stoop as low as your mentality, and i must admit, I used to think ignorance was bliss until i met you and in some way i feel pretty sad for individuals like you.

So although i appreciate your attempts and admire your perserverance, all that you have proved to me is the fact that you are ignorant and unfortunately you will never be able to disprove that fact.

Bye. ;)
 

Xarog

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halicon said:
This fact comes from the bible the same source for the stuff that you label irrelevant
And irrelevant means inherently false because?

its the arabs who moan.
I see. So the jews who say the arabs want to drive them into the sea are actually arabs?

i dunno, the arabs and you guys are going off about stolen nonsense
Liar.

You posted :

Halicon said:
4. The Arabs conquered Palestine in 635 AD, stealing it from its legitimate Jewish rulers, who had evicted the Byzantines while being led by a woman general, one Hefzibah, who then restored Jewish sovereignty. Palestine was stolen from the Jews by the Arabs and not the other way around.
By your OWN source, it's the Jewish people who are complaining that the lands they took by conquest were stolen from them.

show me this?
:rolleyes:

Why don't you show me the evidence that the arab people weren't there the whole time.

um... no it means you are an idiot?
I see sarcasm is lost on you. But at least you agree who prays to what ****ing statue and how they face it is stupid.

You should choose to either dismiss the bible or not not use it when it suits your needs
Are you really this thick?

I'm pointing out how the Torah has been used selectively by the bilge you posted.

And I never dismissed it as you falsely claim. I've only claimed that it's been misused as a source. If I believed that the Torah was all absolutely true it would not matter a whit.

halicon said:
Xarog said:
What stupidity. Why don't the Zulus and Xhosas share the same lands, they're both black, right? Or what about the Scots and the English?
um? You obvioulsy forgot to think with this one
So you agree that there's sects of arabs just as there's sects of black people or sects of white people?

which war?
Six-day war for starters.

ohh. show me the Israeli laws that show this. Or how about a little bit of evidence?

When I went into Saudi Arabia if you are Israeli, Jewish or have visited Israel they do not let you in the country - that sounds like Apartheid to me.
I don't usually spam alot of links, but regardless :

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/756413.html
http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0190/9001020.htm
http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0491/9104064.htm
http://www.btselem.org/English/Special/2005804_Racism_Law.asp


Must i believe this because you say so? Show me a news article where they have?
You first.

um you havent disproved anything you have simply shared your pathetic oppinion but i have yet to see any proof of what you have tried to disprove.

So um... yeah
Is that why you ignored half of my responses? :cool:

dude - HELLO - its 2006
So?
 

kilo39

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Now let's see: the original quote was:

show me palestine on a map.

answered with this link:


and while looking at that, look at this of Israel today: from the same source

Further queried by:

Go look at any map of the area in 1900. The whole place was a british colony, called... *drumroll*... Palestine!

Answered by:
dude - HELLO - its 2006

LOOK at the maps! Who clearly is the expansionist nation? What deaths and misery that expansion (must have) brought.

And right there you have your answer: arrogance displayed in 4 letters: dude, it's 2006 (so palestine doesn't exist anymore, I wonder why?)

And still with the facts.

Sickening arrogance.
 

SuperAntMD

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And irrelevant means inherently false because?
Just because you say a fact is irrelevant doesn't make it so, especially if it is not inherently false as you love to point out. The Fact that Israel became a nation state way back when is not irrelevant as they made Jerusalem back then. Just because this is uncomfortable for you by no means makes it irrelevant.

I see. So the jews who say the arabs want to drive them into the sea are actually arabs?
Sarcasm is not really debate but anyway: No. Because you don't see Israelis (you do realise there is a difference between jews and Israelis right?) whining about it, they are using it to explain why they need to defend themselves from murderers.

Why don't you show me the evidence that the arab people weren't there the whole time.
Are you serious? If you make a statement it must be backed up when challenged. Halicons statements if untrue could be disproved with a simple google search, which none of you seem to be able to do. One can not show the absence of alleged racist laws or anything else. How do you prove the absence of something? Would you like a complete copy of the Israeli constitution?


I see sarcasm is lost on you. But at least you agree who prays to what ****ing statue and how they face it is stupid.
At no time did he agree with you. The issue at hand is should Israel give up Jerusalem to the Palestinians. The answer is no, which is then backed up by proving how much more of a historical, and religious claim there is for Israelis and Jews everywhere to Jerusalem then there is for palestinians.

Six-day war for starters.
This war was started "pre-emptively" on well documented information that, the surrounding nations were going to attack Israel.
wikipedia said:
When Egypt expelled the United Nations Emergency Force (UNEF) from the Sinai Peninsula, increased its military activity near the border, and blockaded the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships, Israel launched a preemptive strike against Egypt's air force, fearing an imminent attack


You first.
Again completely unsubstantiated trollop which you refuse to find sources for?
 

SuperAntMD

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LOOK at the maps! Who clearly is the expansionist nation? What deaths and misery that expansion (must have) brought.

And right there you have your answer: arrogance displayed in 4 letters: dude, it's 2006 (so palestine doesn't exist anymore, I wonder why?)

And still with the facts.

Sickening arrogance.

Lets discuss some facts shall we?

The Palestine referred to in that map was a creation of colonialism. Before the middle east was colonised it was run by small chieftains here and there many of whom were nomadic. Then the colonial powers came along and drew lines in the sand effectively creating the countries we have today.

The term Palestinian was never used to describe the melting pot of people currently using it to refer to themselves until the late 1960s, 20 years after the establishment of the state of Israel.

There is absolutely no link between the Modern day Palestinians and the ancient Philistines. The "fact" that there names sound similar so who can deny the link? is rubbish.

As for looking at the maps and then deciding on who is the expansionist nation: If you need the maps you shouldn't be in this debate. That is well documented history. What is more relevant is the fact that when England withdrew from what was then Palestine. The "Palestinians" were offered everything they're asking for today but said no thank you we want it all. "The maps" explain how dismally their egomaniacal plan failed and now they are left to pick up the pieces.

I hope that puts an end to your wondering why Palestine doesn't exist anymore.
 

nocilah

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Now let's see: the original quote was:



answered with this link:



and while looking at that, look at this of Israel today: from the same source

Further queried by:



Answered by:

LOOK at the maps! Who clearly is the expansionist nation? What deaths and misery that expansion (must have) brought.

And right there you have your answer: arrogance displayed in 4 letters: dude, it's 2006 (so palestine doesn't exist anymore, I wonder why?)

And still with the facts.

Sickening arrogance.

have you even considered asking why the state of Israel was made where it was? Some random finger pointing exercise? Or do you think their is some history in that piece of land which was and now Israel? And then the cherry on top is calling me arrogant? Seriously, enlighten yourself it will do wonders in understanding the stupidity in your above statement and perhaps give you a deeper insight into this very contentious issue.

It is obvious that no one here is willing to actually do their own research, instead they will resort to name calling, emotional outbursts and uninformed oppinions. Clearly you have chosen a side and you will stick to it with the same fanatacism your average Islamic terrorist has.

So thanks - but at this rate nothing constructive is being achieved in this non-debate, and quiet frankly it is not very difficult being arrogant when surrounded by fools.
 

adamr

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halicon, your initial post ... pure propaganda, the mere fact that you mentioned Muslims face their backs to Jerusalem, is a “lie” no other way to put it (well the book you took that from) [im in SA praying, I face Mecca and guess what my back is not turned back to Jerusalem].

You quote a few facts amongst the fallible, purely objective statements … making it seem like your entire post is based entirely on well researched facts … that’s propaganda at its best!

Your initial post is the reason why people have wars and why there is so much hate amongst Muslims and Jews … it is a holy place for the Jewish, Muslim and Christian people … and in the end it does not belong to anyone but God … so everyone should just live together and stop the damn fighting.

Disappointed that such a “well educated” person like yourself would incite such hate with your propaganda … cause that is the only reaction you will get with those majority of lies ... this world needs peace not more wars and hate …
 

mooK

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I think what was meant is that when praying in the Dome of the Rock or the Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem's Old City, they're facing Mecca and their backs are towards the rest of Jerusalem.

This isn't particularly important at all, and it is completely irrelevant, the only purpose that particular line had was to stir up a bit of emotion or whatever.
 

JBFRobisher

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A bit tedious having to reply to all the prejudiced rhetoric, but some responses:

The Fact that Israel became a nation state way back when is not irrelevant as they made Jerusalem back then. Just because this is uncomfortable for you by no means makes it irrelevant.

The city is believed to have been first built and founded by Canaanite peoples (possibly, but not necessarily the Jebusites who occupied the city during the late Bronze Age).-Wikipedia

The issue at hand is should Israel give up Jerusalem to the Palestinians. The answer is no, which is then backed up by proving how much more of a historical, and religious claim there is for Israelis and Jews everywhere to Jerusalem then there is for palestinians.

Palestinians and Muslims still have a valid claim - your argument is like "my car's better than yours" - trivial:

Jerusalem is generally regarded by Muslims as the location of the third holiest site in Islam, and the city was the original Qibla (direction of prayer) for Muslims prior to Mecca.-Wikipedia


This war was started "pre-emptively" on well documented information that, the surrounding nations were going to attack Israel.

They still started it.


Again completely unsubstantiated trollop which you refuse to find sources for?

Trollop: an offensive term that deliberately insults a woman who is a prostitute or who is reputed to be sexually promiscuous - Encarta

Mrs Malaprop been visting you? "Tripe" maybe - you should know?
 

rwenzori

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and quiet frankly it is not very difficult being arrogant when surrounded by fools.

Takes one to know one methinks. Besides, didn't you say "Bye" some time ago? I had rather hoped you had stopped posting hate and insults.
 
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