It's just a Roman salute, says school in 'Nazi' matric photograph furore

[Techne]

Yes Mr Neo-Nazi propaganda pusher, I said the way in which the Nazis did it. You seem to want to add that i said the Russians never planned it at all. I didn;t say that. You are.

Read these pieces on what made the Holocaust unique -

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/what-makes-the-holocaust-unique
https://www.researchgate.net/public...akes_the_Holocaust_a_uniquely_unique_genocide
https://www.aish.com/ho/i/Uniqueness-of-the-Holocaust.html

Spend some time.

I am not, despite what you want to think, saying that any other genocide was less severe or not important. I am highlighting what made the Holocaust uniquely different to the others.

Ah, so we don't have to care for it more or less just because it was different. Great.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

You want me to make the moral distinction.

To me there is none.

You asked why people place more emphasis on the holocaust and I showed the unique elements that attract the attention.

It is crude and sad.

Ok, so we agree that people are stupid, and that I shouldn't listen to people who try to manipulate my moral compass via my emotional sentiments at my expense and to their benefit.

Right?

You would be shocked that in my opinion, the genocide that irks me the most is the Rwanda Genocide. The way it just ahppened, from seemingly nothing, is by far the scariest aspect.

You're right, that IS shocking to me. You were only too happy to criticise me for not accepting your point about the sophistication of the genocidal machinery. In the context of the conversation how else was I supposed to take the point of your engagement?

 

[Gingerbeardman]

I don't actually have an opinion on the numbers. I am suspicious of any and all counts and at the end of the day it doesn't really matter much. I think it's readily apparent that there are far greater historical atrocities that get far less attention, and that gives me pause when it comes to considering why this one particular atrocity should be seen as the one that sits at the top of the horror pile.

And so long as nobody talks about that particular elephant in the room, I'll continue to dump on everyone who attempts to manipulate my moral compass.

Which of course is reasonable.

The distinction with the Holocaust was the specific, direct targeting of one particular group of people, for no particular reasoning, other than the irrational fears and hatred of them.

<snip>

I think I see what might have happened. When you said "Which of course is reasonable", were you referring to my suspicion rather than the notion of putting the Nazi atrocity at the top of the pile?

 

[buka001]

I think I see what might have happened. When you said "Which of course is reasonable", were you referring to my suspicion rather than the notion of putting the Nazi atrocity at the top of the pile?

I found your opinion reasonable in the latter.

Why is at the top, so I was showing why I think, society in general places more emphasis on it.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

I found your opinion reasonable in the latter.

Former is first, latter is last; "reasonable in the latter" is kinda hard to parse given the context. Can you clarify?

Why is at the top, so I was showing why I think, society in general places more emphasis on it.

I'll wait to get clarification before I respond to this.

But I think the reason the Nazi crimes get such airtime has more to do with Western geopolitics than any considerations regarding what actually happened on the ground.

 

[buka001]

Former is first, latter is last; "reasonable in the latter" is kinda hard to parse given the context. Can you clarify?


I'll wait to get clarification before I respond to this.

But I think the reason the Nazi crimes get such airtime has more to do with Western geopolitics than any considerations regarding what actually happened on the ground.

The second one. Your suspicions as to why it is elevated to the top.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

The second one. Your suspicions as to why it is elevated to the top.

That's the first one though, lol. The second one is the notion that the elevation itself was reasonable.

Ok, I think we are on the same page now.

 

[buka001]

That's the first one though, lol. The second one is the notion that the elevation itself was reasonable.

Ok, I think we are on the same page now.

Yes notion. Sorry.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

Yes notion. Sorry.

No but now there is a disagreement.

Something can be understandable, but to say that it is reasonable means that it is somehow correct. If it is not reasonable but merely understandable, then my suspicion is what should be regarded as reasonable. On the other hand, if giving the holocaust prime position is reasonable, then my suspicion is ultimately baseless, albeit understandable. However, if that should be the case, then we still lack an explanation for why the apex position is justified.

 

[buka001]

No but now there is a disagreement.

Something can be understandable, but to say that it is reasonable means that it is somehow correct. If it is not reasonable but merely understandable, then my suspicion is what should be regarded as reasonable. On the other hand, if giving the holocaust prime position is reasonable, then my suspicion is ultimately baseless, albeit understandable. However, if that should be the case, then we still lack an explanation for why the apex position is justified.

You have confused me.

Lost track of this. Rewind.

I don't agree that the holocaust should be seen as any higher than any other genocide.

It has its own uniqueness and lessons associated with that, like all genocides do. Each one has a uniqueness to it and lessons because of that.

I think the uniqueness that the Holocaust has, is what evokes a greater level of response and that is why I think it gets the attention that it does. The attention is fully justified in my opinion.

But, I believe there should be equal attention to the other Genocides as well. So the attention to the Holocaust is good, but the attention to others should be the same. They are not and that is crude and dishonourable to the people who died.

I demonstrated the unique factors of the holocaust, that I see as the reasons that evokes those sentiments and attention. You asked why it gets the attention, and this is why I believe.

I don't see the logic that because the Holocaust receives a disproportionate amount of attention, one should find reason to doubt the numbers and facts. I think it is the opposite.

The attention that the holocaust receives has resulted in such a broad and deep resource of material that has been used to provide the facts and figures. They are available for anyone to examine and countless books have been written on it. There are several institutes around the world that focus on this and studies have been extensively peer reviewed. It has been studied by such a broad spectrum the world over.

I do see the appeal to emotion point, where denialists have said Zionists and the pro-Israel lobby (oh yeah and now Marxists ..?#!@$%) have said the numbers are pushed to make it worse than it actually was. Facts just don't support those feelings I am afraid.

 

[truman19]

@buka001 @Gingerbeardman

Wow you guys are duking it out at pretty much every single thread at this point

 

[Jabulani22]

In any event why is anyone worried about salutes whether roman or nazi when the nazi symbol of the swatsika is used by indian religions and displayed on property ie bus/car/etc ?
We dont go calling that nazism do we ?
edit : Yes i know the swastika was used by them before the nazis but romans came before nazis too.

 

[theratman]

https://m.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Ne...nreservedly-meets-with-jewish-bodies-20190808

The principal of Somerset West Private School (SWPS) on Thursday apologised unreservedly for three former students who did a Nazi salute, as well as acknowledging that referring to the gesture as a "Roman salute" was "misjudged".

 

[Jabulani22]

https://m.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Ne...nreservedly-meets-with-jewish-bodies-20190808

The principal of Somerset West Private School (SWPS) on Thursday apologised unreservedly for three former students who did a Nazi salute, as well as acknowledging that referring to the gesture as a "Roman salute" was "misjudged".

So the principal decided it was a nazi salute and not the people who performed the act ?
Sounds fishy to me , perhaps the learned principal can demonsrate the difference between them .

 

[Vrotappel]

https://m.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Ne...nreservedly-meets-with-jewish-bodies-20190808

The principal of Somerset West Private School (SWPS) on Thursday apologised unreservedly for three former students who did a Nazi salute, as well as acknowledging that referring to the gesture as a "Roman salute" was "misjudged".

Under pressure because of the 'SAHRC'.

They are coming for them.

 

[The Trutherizer]

Leave it to individuals with less than completely developed brains and limited experience to try to be fresh by being stale.

'nuff said.

 

[theratman]

Under pressure because of the 'SAHRC'.

They are coming for them.

Cape Jewish Board also had meetings with them. Doubt much further action will be taken anyway.

 

[Vrotappel]

Cape Jewish Board also had meetings with them. Doubt much further action will be taken anyway.

Jewish board just going through the ritual.

 

[theratman]

Jewish board just going through the ritual.

Media Release: Somerset West Private School

The Cape Council of the SA Jewish Board of Deputies (SAJBD) has requested a meeting with Somerset West Private School to discuss a way forward after an image showing students making Nazi salutes appeared on the school’s website earlier this week.

Cape Board Executive Director Stuart Diamond emphasized that while Jews, as the primary victims of Nazi tyranny, were particularly sensitive regarding displays of this nature, the incident was something that concerned all South Africans.

“With the increasing racism and hatred being spread in South Africa, especially on social media, it is incumbent on our schools to inculcate in their students, future citizens of our country, respect for others and an avoidance of any symbols and gestures that could indicate an identification with racist ideologies” Mr Diamond said.

SAJBD Cape chairman Rael Kaimowitz said that the intention of the students concerned was clearly to emulate the infamous ‘Heil Hitler’ salute universally associated with the regime of Nazi Germany, and that there could be no excuse for this.

“We do not accept that such behaviour can be brushed aside by claims that it was ‘only a joke’ or no more than a display of ‘youthful high spirits’. Regardless of what the intention might be, those who make Nazi salutes are in practice publicly identifying with a hateful, ultra-racist ideology that resulted in the greatest genocide of modern times” Mr Kaimowitz said.

Diamond explained that it was with this environmental picture that the Cape Board had started a ‘No Place for Hate’ campaign to address the uses of hate today.

Issued: 08.08.2019

Contact: Stuart Diamond on 082 387 7315 or e-mail stuart@ctjc.co.za

 

[ponder]

In any event why is anyone worried about salutes whether roman or nazi when the nazi symbol of the swatsika is used by indian religions and displayed on property ie bus/car/etc ?
We dont go calling that nazism do we ?
edit : Yes i know the swastika was used by them before the nazis but romans came before nazis too.

Same reason feminist never have a go at islamic states.