Its seems this country will collapse in the following 5-10 years

Ponderer

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Disclaimer: I know very little (almost nothing ) about finances.

I understand that every country in the world has debt.
If every country has debt, who is the grand creditor - who is it that every country is indebted to?
Is it the IMF (International Monetary Fund) or World Bank?
What/who is the IMF?

Might be a topic for a separate thread.
Anybody want to start such a thread?
 

saturnz

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Disclaimer: I know very little (almost nothing ) about finances.

I understand that every country in the world has debt.
If every country has debt, who is the grand creditor - who is it that every country is indebted to?
Is it the IMF (International Monetary Fund) or World Bank?
What/who is the IMF?

Might be a topic for a separate thread.
Anybody want to start such a thread?
Check national debt scam on YouTube.
 

Ponderer

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Thanks for links.
Videos are lengthy though.
There perhaps something more concise?

<edit>
Does the IMF prescribe how much money a country should have/print?
I assume that countries lend/borrow money to/from each other, but do they also lend/borrow money elsewhere (other than from other countries)?
 
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Zoomzoom

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They also said SA was destined for civil war when Mandela got released.

Moving along - nothing to see here.
We averted civil war when we voted to release Mandela. Correction, we were in a full on civil war (when people start shooting and blowing things up, it's a war) we just stopped it by doing the right thing.
 

Ponderer

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You can't print money, you can print fiat currency.
Yes - I know that much.
Not referring to printed money - I am referring to the quantity of money of/in a country (or the world for that matter).
 

saturnz

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Yes - I know that much.
Not referring to printed money - I am referring to the quantity of money of/in a country (or the world for that matter).
Money can be anything that meets the definition of money. Gold meets the definition of money but it's quantity is fixed. Honey can meet the definition of money but it's quantity is not fixed as such.
 

Ponderer

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Money can be anything that meets the definition of money. Gold meets the definition of money but it's quantity is fixed. Honey can meet the definition of money but it's quantity is not fixed as such.
I think you don't quite understand what I am asking.
I am asking where money comes from, and who controls it - more specifically, who controls money worldwide.
 

saturnz

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I think you don't quite understand what I am asking.
I am asking where money comes from, and who controls it - more specifically, who controls money worldwide.
Maybe you don't know what money is.

Nobody controls money. You are probably referring to fiat currency- which banks control.
 

krycor

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Man! Not too long ago US debt was at $19 trillion, what the heck happened....

We're a much smaller country so it is only obvious that we would have a smaller debt, R3.5 trillion is nothing to be proud of though. Still a huge whack that we have to pay back somehow.......
Trump happen.. between trade wars and tax benefits for his buddies that debt has sky rocketed. They can’t even claim they spending on massive infrastructure or well being.. things that are seen as valid vs populous longer term gdp growth.

So yah.. they got problems, our problems are little.. a big portion of ours is perception which hasn’t changed post Zuma. You can’t change past only future and sooner people accept this the better.
 

krycor

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The sooner the crash, the less catastrophic it will be and therefore the easier the course correction will be.
The sooner it happens the worse it will be not from a financial point of view but from a civil one.

SA has become very divided and it’s dumb. If things get significantly tough right now I fear that it will spill into a civil war more easily than in the past and that minority who try and push for a financial collapse will regret it.
 

Daruk

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Picked up an interesting stat the other day on The Keiser Report - the IMF says that there is a $19 trillion corporate debt and that 40% of them CANNOT afford to pay back the INTEREST on that debt! Scary stuff.
The world economy is in deep deep trouble with bubbles bubbles everywhere. Yet because Wall Street seems to be doing well (stock market) many seem ignorant of this fact and living with their heads in the clouds.
So Bitcoin?
 

SoldierMan

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So Bitcoin?
Yeah Max (Keiser) and Stacey are proponents of Bitcoin, but that is one area in which I disagree with them. I'm not a big fan of Bitcoin.

For me it's gold and silver, not because I'm blind to anything else but because if what I think is on the horizon hits, nothing but gold and silver will keep your wealth intact. That, and countries (especially China) will want more control over a digital currency and so will create their own and Bitcoin will be left behind. Look, you can make some profit in Bitcoin but know when to get out. I could be wrong, but I just don't trust it long term.

It might seem a little conspiratorial, but headlines like the following, just keep on popping up all over the place (not to mention the actual markets themselves), these are just a couple of recent ones.

In comments which have caught critics of fiat by surprise, the Dutch Central Bank, known as De Nederlandse Bank (DNB), said gold would be indispensable in the event of a fiat meltdown.

Mark Carney: dollar is too dominant and could be replaced by digital currency

Besides, gold has outperformed even the supposed best economic minds (NOT according to me though) in terms of profit. If you had followed all of Warren Buffet's moves he made you would have ended up with less profit than if you had just invested in gold!
 

Moto Guzzi

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Money is a game, yes a game about relativity between people. 1st was trading straight on, that was sort of a linear game. Then as the populations grow from families to communities to countries some clever bloke, lazy as hell, sit and thought about a common demeaner that can have non_linear accumulative advantages for those spotting it. So the trend he managed to get established started as a serious game between the REALITY of Resources & Money & population numbers growing, it also was establish as the human race main control system, all other groupings/control systems you can think of has a problem if they ran out of money.

Debt: One of the most evil abstract concepts linked to money ever in the long run. It let prises rise quickly on the coming flood of money, thats a given.
-The honest man usually take out debt, not to his own fault, but driven by speed/trends of life to get a house(overpriced), get a car(overpriced) and whatever other overprised goods he can afford to pay back in resonable time. If it was not for this etopia , you would not see debt existing at all.
-The corruptee/clever thief whatever the name, he looks different at debt. With syndication assist, he draws huge debt, with the intention not to pay it back, soon he cry innocent & bancruptcy, leaving a huge hole in the bank. Before his bancruptcy, a load of nothing was converted to cash relatively quickly(I just used cash to symbolise real cleared money). This money get quickly channelled into all sorts of projects and flow to various accounts legit, follow the money.

Now with the above in mind, seeing its a game of relativity, yes you can be more rich than I am, no sweat about it, but we all must behave in this game, -OR- we get what is talked about...The world in debt that cannot be paid back and that ....hole-in-the-bank.... picking up a fight with Mr resources & Mss Overpopulation.
Now this is where clever people high up don't see the future coming. Nature with its resources & TIME is going to hit back for ill financial dissiplinary practises, and thats why this is a serious game and not a computer game. You cant dish out money willy-nilly like sweets.

So with a XXX-Trillion debt hole in the worlds books and corresponding holes in earth, what is the logical answer seeing its a relativity game.

>>>>Everybody in the world effected has to ...Go-Down in Wealth... accumulated, but not in relativity, you can still be richer than me with just less money. This is the way to close up that hole, and the orchastrators should not naturally expect sympathy from the worlds middleclass or poor in going down, keeping everybody and NATURE(Resources) happy. Going up rising taxes, levies, admin costs, and prises in general is a real dangerous practise at this stage in the world of money.

I really don't care if you strongly disagree with this, I just has to say it once, then it has been said, and TIME kicks in and rolls on..... I am pretty sure some 3 generations from now, a smart kid is going to wake up and see the writing on the wall, because his granddad did not had the foresight and insight overwelmed with the mathematical compications(Abstract Excuse escape routes) thrown on the game's development over the years.
 
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saturnz

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Debt: One of the most evil abstract concepts linked to money ever in the long run. It let prises rise quickly on the coming flood of money, thats a given.
its only evil if you subscribe to a God/religion, I doubt atheists have a moral view on debt
 

static_sa

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Disclaimer: I know very little (almost nothing ) about finances.

I understand that every country in the world has debt.
If every country has debt, who is the grand creditor - who is it that every country is indebted to?
Is it the IMF (International Monetary Fund) or World Bank?
What/who is the IMF?

Might be a topic for a separate thread.
Anybody want to start such a thread?
It's the Iron Bank of Braavos, of course
 

Daruk

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Yeah Max (Keiser) and Stacey are proponents of Bitcoin, but that is one area in which I disagree with them. I'm not a big fan of Bitcoin.

For me it's gold and silver, not because I'm blind to anything else but because if what I think is on the horizon hits, nothing but gold and silver will keep your wealth intact. That, and countries (especially China) will want more control over a digital currency and so will create their own and Bitcoin will be left behind. Look, you can make some profit in Bitcoin but know when to get out. I could be wrong, but I just don't trust it long term.

It might seem a little conspiratorial, but headlines like the following, just keep on popping up all over the place (not to mention the actual markets themselves), these are just a couple of recent ones.

In comments which have caught critics of fiat by surprise, the Dutch Central Bank, known as De Nederlandse Bank (DNB), said gold would be indispensable in the event of a fiat meltdown.

Mark Carney: dollar is too dominant and could be replaced by digital currency

Besides, gold has outperformed even the supposed best economic minds (NOT according to me though) in terms of profit. If you had followed all of Warren Buffet's moves he made you would have ended up with less profit than if you had just invested in gold!
Except that any investment is relative to time. If you're bought gold in mid 2011, you'd only now, 8 years on, be breaking even after the crash of 2014-2017...
 

SoldierMan

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Debt: One of the most evil abstract concepts linked to money ever in the long run. It let prises rise quickly on the coming flood of money, thats a given.
Haven't you heard, according to Paul Krugman: "Debt is money we owe to ourselves." :)
 

SoldierMan

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Except that any investment is relative to time. If you're bought gold in mid 2011, you'd only now, 8 years on, be breaking even after the crash of 2014-2017...
Yes, but independent (as opposed to mainstream) minds have been saying to buy gold long before that. The warning signs have been flashing red for quite a while now. But yes, it's like anything, you buy when the price is low (like now, well relatively anyway), not high.

If you want to make a quick buck gold is not for you, if you however want to ensure your wealth is preserved, no matter what happens, then gold is the place to invest.

Remember, the gold/silver price has been manipulated for quite a while now. This was a conspiracy theory a while back but has since become conspiracy fact with a number of people being charged (the latest to be charged are traders at JP Morgan) quite recently.

Who knows where the gold price would have been if price discovery had been allowed to occur rather than price fixing. But hey for gold bugs it has allowed many to buy gold which would have otherwise have been really expensive. Just look at China and Russia, they are buying (and mining and keeping it all) as much gold as they can get their hands on.
 
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