Ivermectin and Covid-19: SA drug regulator allows controlled, compassionate access

Grant

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
51,874
Uhm yea, You guys might want to watch this.

*study is flawed and vaccine manufacturers are involved in study.

*They used young people with mild symptoms.

*Patients were sent home to take ivermectin & compliance is debatable.

Regardless of whether it works is irrelevant to me. At least do things the right way and with everything above board.

The regularity body also seems to be behaving in a dodgy manner.

You are 100% correct.
This serves to underscore the need for proper trials to be carried out in order to establish if any pharmaceutical product is fit for desired purpose
 

Grant

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
51,874
As she should be.

I am ****ing tired of Drs that are p**sys

They are told how to think by these organisations and don't ****ing think for themselves.

They place their livelihood above ensuring the best outcome for a patient.

The oath means nothing to these type of Drs.

****ing leeches. I'm not a Pinata made of money.

Most of these Drs are in it for the wrong reasons.

They are in it for the holiday homes, Range Rovers etc.

They can go **** themselves.

Sorry, I needed to vent.

I see specialist regularly and I'm frankly tired of being treated like an ATM.

The medical system is ****ing broken.

I just need to show you my medical aid statements to show you how ****ed up things are.

I am on a comprehensive plan and you will be shocked by how little is covered & how many drs charge above medical aid fees.

Edit : This kinda reminds me of a thread here that made me angry but I never said anything.

A dad was excited his daughter got into medical school.

He asked which budget car would be the best option.

He goes on to buy a 450k Audi for a 19 year old student

Some people weren't happy and he went on to say "She will be earning 200k per month from her qualification".

Yea dude, from sick people like me that fund that lifestyle.

If you only knew how many times I swiped my credit card because these Drs don't ****ing claim from medical aid..

"Sir your medical aid will reimburse you".

Not the full amount and not all the time.

Sometimes it pisses me off how ****ed up things are.

I only encountered 1 decent Dr.

He had a conversation with me. Heard I lost my job due to covid and was kind enough to charge a lower consultation fee. I was very grateful.
You should probably consider valium.

A couple of things - medical school is not cheap.
You see a specialist. That person, after completing school went on to study for another 10yrs or so. In short, longer than the entire time in school.
Maybe you should have done the same, then you would have no cause to complain how expensive you may perceive things to be.

You also clearly have a crap medical aid.
Since the beginning of 2017 to the end of 2019 my mother was in an out of hospital - multiple surgical procedures, icu etc etc, and about 12 or so specialists, excluding anethatists.
Back to back, total time in hospital over that period was about 9 months.
Total cost: R5.2m
Total co-payments: under R10k

It may be time for a little introspection on your part.

But a little parting advice (for all).
Despite any medical cover, negotiate rates and tariffs to ensure charges are within medical aid rates - and that includes hospitals and diagnostic testing
 

HS2000

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2020
Messages
261
You should probably consider valium.

A couple of things - medical school is not cheap.
You see a specialist. That person, after completing school went on to study for another 10yrs or so. In short, longer than the entire time in school.
Maybe you should have done the same, then you would have no cause to complain how expensive you may perceive things to be.

You also clearly have a crap medical aid.
Since the beginning of 2017 to the end of 2019 my mother was in an out of hospital - multiple surgical procedures, icu etc etc, and about 12 or so specialists, excluding anethatists.
Back to back, total time in hospital over that period was about 9 months.
Total cost: R5.2m
Total co-payments: under R10k

It may be time for a little introspection on your part.

But a little parting advice (for all).
Despite any medical cover, negotiate rates and tariffs to ensure charges are within medical aid rates - and that includes hospitals and diagnostic testing
I am glad your mom recovered and her medical costs were covered.

BUT

You don't get to invalidate my experience.

Until you have lived with a chronic condition and have gone from specialist to specialist.



Aren't you the same guy that lives in an affluent part of Cape Town and has more than 1 property.

My lived reality is completely ****ing different.

You are a condescending ass.

With peace and love, shut the **** up.
 

Grant

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
51,874
I am glad your mom recovered and her medical costs were covered.

BUT

You don't get to invalidate my experience.

Until you have lived with a chronic condition and have gone from specialist to specialist.



Aren't you the same guy that lives in an affluent part of Cape Town and has more than 1 property.

My lived reality is completely ****ing different.

You are a condescending ass.

With peace and love, shut the **** up.
I do have a chronic condition - one that landed me in hospital for invasive treatment during December - the same that killed my mother and all her siblings.

My mother did not recover, she died in the emergency dept at Chris Barnard hospital on Christmas eve, previous December.

Get off your soapbox and stop wallowing in self pity
 

krycor

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
17,373
Uhm yea, You guys might want to watch this.

*study is flawed and vaccine manufacturers are involved in study.

*They used young people with mild symptoms.

*Patients were sent home to take ivermectin & compliance is debatable.

Regardless of whether it works is irrelevant to me. At least do things the right way and with everything above board.

The regularity body also seems to be behaving in a dodgy manner.


The way I see it.. as with everything involving human nature controlled.. people want miracle cures because they want to continue living their normal life.

Yes it’s completely irrational to anyone who knows how the scientific process works. When it goes wrong blame is dished out fast.. but access is limited due to no proof of efficacy in the standard manner all medicines in SA (trials) and globally go through.. blame is dished out again to whomever halts things.

This is the stupidity of human nature.



Wrt medical specialist costs.. yes it’s pricy, get medical aid & gap cover. Brutal reality is that the avg cost of a specialist is 300% medical aid rate. If your medical aid is covering less than 200% let’s hope you not paying the price others are paying for more(even with Discovery all plans are not equal and need to re-evaluated annually).

2ndly.. learn where to go to hospital and which specialist to trust especially for non-emergency. If you a typical MyBB member who thinks every professional who is whiter than the lab coat is the best then yes.. you will likely pay 500% at a expensive hospital and end up paying off debt for a long time.

The days of letting the hospital or doctor decide which specialist to go to is long gone. Brutal sad reality is that good doctors are subset of crap and profiteering ones and like every place.. they not the loud mouth, boastful types which most people falsely go to because they must be successful. Get to know medical specialists and you will learn of the horrors.

As a general rule in Cpt.. don’t go north of the boerewors curtains and expect a competitive price lmfao.


Ps. Once you find an awesome anaethetist or surgery nurse.. they are the best people to ask who’s who in the zoo. The anaethetist in particular as they travel and work with many so can tell you who is a butcher, sloppy, costly or good and ethical.
 

JohnStarr

Expert Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
4,189
As she should be.

I am ****ing tired of Drs that are p**sys

They are told how to think by these organisations and don't ****ing think for themselves.

They place their livelihood above ensuring the best outcome for a patient.

The oath means nothing to these type of Drs.

****ing leeches. I'm not a Pinata made of money.

Most of these Drs are in it for the wrong reasons.

They are in it for the holiday homes, Range Rovers etc.

They can go **** themselves.

Sorry, I needed to vent.

I see specialist regularly and I'm frankly tired of being treated like an ATM.

The medical system is ****ing broken.

I just need to show you my medical aid statements to show you how ****ed up things are.

I am on a comprehensive plan and you will be shocked by how little is covered & how many drs charge above medical aid fees.

Edit : This kinda reminds me of a thread here that made me angry but I never said anything.

A dad was excited his daughter got into medical school.

He asked which budget car would be the best option.

He goes on to buy a 450k Audi for a 19 year old student

Some people weren't happy and he went on to say "She will be earning 200k per month from her qualification".

Yea dude, from sick people like me that fund that lifestyle.

If you only knew how many times I swiped my credit card because these Drs don't ****ing claim from medical aid..

"Sir your medical aid will reimburse you".

Not the full amount and not all the time.

Sometimes it pisses me off how ****ed up things are.

I only encountered 1 decent Dr.

He had a conversation with me. Heard I lost my job due to covid and was kind enough to charge a lower consultation fee. I was very grateful.
Is your rant over now...?

You realise that doctors, lawyers, pharmacists, accountants etc. all have bodies that govern their industries to make sure people don't take the wrong decisions.

If you encountered only 1 decent doctor then you're definitely looking in the wrong direction. I've encoutered 2 doctors I never liked (both paediatricians) but that's about it.
 

JohnStarr

Expert Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
4,189
I am glad your mom recovered and her medical costs were covered.

BUT

You don't get to invalidate my experience.

Until you have lived with a chronic condition and have gone from specialist to specialist.



Aren't you the same guy that lives in an affluent part of Cape Town and has more than 1 property.

My lived reality is completely ****ing different.

You are a condescending ass.

With peace and love, shut the **** up.
Dude, chill out. He's not fighting with you and you don't get to bring up his lifestyle and compare it to yours. Mine is also different to yours, and I don't live in an affluent suburb.

We all live different lives, but I have yet to see @Grant act like a condescending ass.
 

krycor

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
17,373
Is your rant over now...?

You realise that doctors, lawyers, pharmacists, accountants etc. all have bodies that govern their industries to make sure people don't take the wrong decisions.

If you encountered only 1 decent doctor then you're definitely looking in the wrong direction. I've encoutered 2 doctors I never liked (both paediatricians) but that's about it.

Just one thing.. there is no industry body for cost.

Consumer education wrt shopping around for hospital and specialist is non-existent.
 

JohnStarr

Expert Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
4,189
Just one thing.. there is no industry body for cost.

Consumer education wrt shopping around for hospital and specialist is non-existent.
Maybe, but I also don't want to go to a discount doctor which is why we have picked our GP/Paediatrician. Medical is one thing we don't skimp on.
 

seneca

Member
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
12
SAHPRA has conceded to rolling out ivermectin for prescription from Wednesday (tomorrow) - without section 21 prerequisite. Not exactly sure what this means - still have to get supplies into SA?

 

Geoff.D

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
19,670
SAHPRA has conceded to rolling out ivermectin for prescription from Wednesday (tomorrow) - without section 21 prerequisite. Not exactly sure what this means - still have to get supplies into SA?

I will believe when I see it! SAHPRA has actually realised just how deep in the quagmire they are as a result of their total failure to apply the ACT correctly since 2014.

I foresee a flood of more complaints and concessions about all sort of medications affected by the same bureaucratic BS that affected IVM.
And wait until some enterprising lawyer starts tearing into them about the importation of medications for personal use ---- That is another mess SAHPRA got itself into!
 
Last edited:

Grant

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
51,874
WHO says not to use ivermectin on COVID-19 patients

The World Health Organization said on Wednesday that ivermectin -- touted by some on social media as a COVID-19 "miracle cure" -- should not be used to treat coronavirus patients.

In response to the swirl of claims around the cheap anti-parasite drug, the WHO issued guidelines saying ivermectin should only be used on COVID-19 patients in clinical trial settings.

The UN health agency said there was a "very low certainty of evidence" on ivermectin's effects on mortality, hospital admission and getting rid of the virus from the body.

Facebook posts and articles endorsing ivermectin have proliferated in Brazil, France, South Africa and South Korea as governments around the world struggle with vaccination programmes.

The WHO looked at studies that compared ivermectin against a placebo and against other drugs, in 16 randomised control trials examining 2,400 patients.
WHO experts stressed that the guidelines were not rigid and could be updated over time if further evidence comes to light

The recommendation is likely to provoke fury and scepticism among the drug's social media champions.

Often the rhetoric doing the rounds on social media for ivermectin is the same as for hydroxychloroquine: that the authorities are deliberately ignoring it because it is not profitable for the pharmaceutical industry.

Proponents of ivermectin, like those of hydroxychloroquine, often argue that it is already widely used -- even for totally different purposes -- therefore its use for COVID-19 is nothing to worry about.

 

TeMoeg

Active Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
48

WHO-sponsored preliminary review indicates Ivermectin effectiveness​

April 1, 2021

In this article originally published by Swiss Policy Research on December 31, 2020, we see a public presentation given by Dr. Andrew Hill. Dr. Hill is the spearhead of a World Health Organization (WHO)-sponsored meta-analysis of randomized control trials of Ivermectin for the treatment of symptomatic COVID-19. Based on Dr. Hill’s preliminary results, he found that the use of Ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 resulted in a highly significant 83% reduction in COVID mortality.

Dr. Hill also found that Ivermectin drastically reduced viral clearance time, faster recovery (discharge) time.

The meta-analysis was concluded on January 20, 2021 showing a result of 75% reduction in COVID mortality. The data does not include results in ambulatory and prophylactic treatment.

Visit the original link to view the 12-minute presentation by Dr. Hill.


Editor’s Note: This article is for the detractors of Ivermectin who insist that there is no proof showing the effectiveness and safety of the drug for COVID-19. We simply cannot understand how these people, some of whom are doctors, can simply write off Ivermectin when many people are suffering.


Even though the results of this study will still need to be confirmed by a large scale clinical trial, we can say with confidence that resource-deprived countries like the Philippines need to start using Ivermectin, as soon as possible. Delaying the widespread use of this drug is irresponsible, especially with our hospitals getting overwhelmed by mild COVID cases, while patients suffering from more serious illnesses are being turned away. Ivermectin can help us unclog our ailing health care system and ease the panic among our people.

 

TeMoeg

Active Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
48
It seems that it depends on whom you ask at the WHO for his opinion. This is a pity that those in charge have been bought out by the big pharma companies. They rather care about their own pockets than the lives of COVID-19 patients. This behaviour can be seen as manslaughter, since they cause the unnecessary death of thousands of people.
 

Geoff.D

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
19,670
I will believe when I see it! SAHPRA has actually realised just how deep in the quagmire they are as a result of their total failure to apply the ACT correctly since 2014.

I foresee a flood of more complaints and concessions about all sort of medications affected by the same bureaucratic BS that affected IVM.
And wait until some enterprising lawyer starts tearing into them about the importation of medications for personal use ---- That is another mess SAHPRA got itself into!
And here is the actual position of SAHPRA on the use of IVM.
Continuing to cling to their head-in-the-sand attitude to a medication that is being very effectively used by many doctors to treat Covid and even prevent infection.
 

HS2000

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Joined
Dec 6, 2020
Messages
261
And here is the actual position of SAHPRA on the use of IVM.
Continuing to cling to their head-in-the-sand attitude to a medication that is being very effectively used by many doctors to treat Covid and even prevent infection.
They don't think independently. They were waiting on WHO to tell them what to think.

It's actually disgusting.

I don't know how anybody can take WHO seriously anymore.
 

RonSwanson

Executive Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
5,439
They don't think independently. They were waiting on WHO to tell them what to think.

It's actually disgusting.

I don't know how anybody can take WHO seriously anymore.
The EMA isn't much better.
Here is the British Ivermectin Recommendation Development Panel's response to the recent EMA statement on Ivermectin for Covid-19:
In summary: It is time for regulatory authorities to recognize that ivermectin’s effectiveness in covid-19 has already been demonstrated, and that its general safety profile is extremely well-known. In a pandemic situation, regulators should approve this very safe medicine for routine use, at the clinical discretion of any licensed medical practitioner. Further delay can lead only to further unnecessary loss of life.

 

RonSwanson

Executive Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
5,439
A Yale University professor and renowned cancer researcher has treated several dozen patients. He can remain silent no longer.

The bottom line is that ivermectin works. I’ve seen that in my patients as well as treating my own family in Italy,” Santin said in an interview, referring to his father, 88, who recently suffered a serious bout of COVID. “We must find a way to administer it on a large scale to a lot of people.

 

HS2000

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2020
Messages
261
A Yale University professor and renowned cancer researcher has treated several dozen patients. He can remain silent no longer.



They don't want it to work. Especially if it is something inexpensive.

It also means we stop living in fear.

The world health organisation has too much power & influence.

It is disturbing how authority is never questioned.

It is disturbing how a medication with a known safety profile is being vilified & they no longer have Trump to use as a scapegoat.
 

HS2000

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2020
Messages
261
I am also tired of people saying "vaccine side effects are extremely rare & statically you will be fine".

Guess what bish..

I'm not a statistic. I am somebody's child, an uncle, a complex but kind human & in general a decent person.


Reading through comments about people dying from vaccine side effects is disturbing.

It is disturbing how a person can die within 24hours due to vaccine side effects.

The cause of death isn't even linked to vaccination. It is being covered up.

I personally would rather take my chances with ivermectin with an established safety profile, than using a rushed vaccine.

I just be given the opportunity & the decision to take ivermectin. Especially because this just increases the demand on the black market.

The outcome from WHO will lead to SA doctors distancing themselves from ivermectin. People will just acquire it from the black market & self medicate.

Ivermectin won't be used correctly or won't be in the purest form & this will further vilify it in medical circles.

I am disappointed that only a handful of people in the medical community are being open minded about ivermectin.

This is a pandemic. There is a shortage of vaccines & no other viable option.

Apparently it is better to watch people die, than to use ivermectin as a form of treatment.
 
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