Ivermectin: balance of evidence shows no benefit against Covid-19

[JangoFett]

Anything that suits the agenda is automatically right, and anything that doesn't is automatically wrong.

Says the guy who nominated a study and told other people to prove it wrong instead of explaining what was right about it.

 

[JangoFett]

Nobody is arguing that there is conclusive evidence that IVM will not work. Cochrane themselves have left it open to change if new evidence comes about.

Oh!

So... why should inconclusive null results rebut positive findings?

 

[Geoff.D]

You just said that the study showed that IVM does reduce symptoms, and I'm telling you that the p-Value tells you that this may easily just be due to chance.

Maybe you should read up on the null hypothesis before you dig this hole any deeper for yourself?

 

[buka001]

The brother had an adverse reaction ---- who says it was the IVM? A Doctor or an anecdotal observation?
This is called critical analysis. It is all about verifying things to ensure understanding. If no one answers, then the questions remain open and unverified.

See this comment of yours in response to an alleged adverse reaction to IVM,

Versus your response to alleged deaths from a vaccine -

That raises a red flag for me. Why the silence on our own 28 deaths? Where are the autopsy results?

Where is your challenge to the authority that claimed this? Where is the critical analysis, to verify things?

Suffering from a severe dose of failed comprehension again? Show me a decent analysis of SA deaths due to vaccines that is in the public domain if you can. All we have is a broken promise of 28 deaths that are /or have undergone autopsies. There are no stats available for SA. and frankly, I am happy to watch the rest of you tear each other part about stats in other countries. And watch the silly and incorrect analysis going on.

 

[pouroverguy]

Says the guy who nominated a study and told other people to prove it wrong instead of explaining what was right about it.

Are you not the one that nominated the Israeli study but have so far not given any explanation whatsoever as to why it is right and why it should change the Cochrane's analysis? The level of cognitive dissonance

 

[JangoFett]

Are you not the one that nominated the Israeli study but have so far not given any explanation whatsoever as to why it is right and why it should change the Cochrane's analysis? The level of cognitive dissonance

Because I want to know why people are disregarding the findings. If the results are unsatisfactory, surely someone can tell me why?

 

[Geoff.D]

No, I just brought that one up as you weren't aware of any studies against IVM. - so I mentioned that one, as well as Cochrane's vast meta-analysis of many many studies. You then misinterpreted the data of the study (which I never said was conclusive evidence that IVM doesn't work), so I told you about the p-value.

NO, they scratched through 1678 studies and chose ONLY 14 to analyse. They did nothing to evaluate all the others. Their system eliminated all the other programmatically. They very generously have a few more that they might include at a later stage IFF the addition of those studies significantly changes the outcome of their current report.

 

[pouroverguy]

Oh!

So... why should inconclusive null results rebut positive findings?

And why should one positive study rebut all the negative results so far that were analysed by people actually qualified in what they're doing?

 

[pouroverguy]

NO, they scratched through 1678 studies and chose ONLY 14 to analyse. They did nothing to evaluate all the others. Their system eliminated all the other programmatically. They very generously have a few more that they might include at a later stage IFF the addition of those studies significantly changes the outcome of their current report.

You have to scratch through the studies. If a study isn't a proper RCT, has a small sample size or has other flews that exclude the criterion for what makes a good study a good study, it's results should not be included. Junk in = junk out. Should the Egyptian study that got torn apart have been included?

 

[buka001]

NO, they scratched through 1678 studies and chose ONLY 14 to analyse. They did nothing to evaluate all the others. Their system eliminated all the other programmatically. They very generously have a few more that they might include at a later stage IFF the addition of those studies significantly changes the outcome of their current report.

Perhaps you should read up on how and why they choose the various studies.

 

[JangoFett]

And why should one positive study rebut all the negative results so far that were analysed by people actually qualified in what they're doing?

Because positive findings rebut null results, but not vice versa...

By way of example: If you have a million arguments that prove why you didn't murder someone, but I have one argument that proves why you did murder someone, your million doesn't trump my one argument. At that point, you have to find fault in my argument, or it wins by default.

 

[Geoff.D]

Please, give us your expert takedown of why Cochrane's analysis of the studies they actually did review is incorrect. And explain which studies they didn't include should have been included, and are not flawed. Please, provide us with your own meta-analysis.

Well, actually no one has taken down their study. Just pointed out some issues. Their conclusions and summary of the 14 studies they chose to evaluate is correct.

 

[Geoff.D]

Is it the Cochrane study's date you're referring to, now?

No the date of the in-depth clinical analysis of what anyone that wants to run trials should've used to prove the effectiveness of IVM. Sorry, I have not posted the link yet, The date is long before the Cochrane report ever came out. and they appeared to have not bothered to see how they could evaluate trials by looking at their dosage regime --- they could have easily included that in their criteria.

Maybe they did and then found they had nothing to write a report on and settled for the next best thing? Maybe I am just being nasty now.

 

[Geoff.D]

You have to scratch through the studies. If a study isn't a proper RCT, has a small sample size or has other flews that exclude the criterion for what makes a good study a good study, it's results should not be included. Junk in = junk out. Should the Egyptian study that got torn apart have been included?

We had that debate already. And I showed how easily it could have made it through the Cochrane filter.
Not going down that road again, been there done that.

 

[Geoff.D]

Perhaps you should read up on how and why they choose the various studies.

Perhaps you should.

 

[HS2000]

I am choosing to post my thoughts here because I feel like I will be mocked/judged elsewhere.

I am getting really nervous /anxious.

Reading the feedback on some of the other threads isn't great for my mental health.

I have read in other threads about loved ones passing away, even though they took Ivermectin.

Granted in one of those posts: The patient was vaccinated, contracted covid & was on Ivermectin. She passed away after vaccination.

The cause of death sounds like side effects of the vaccine & she happened to test positive for covid at the time.

Anyway, I am in a tricky situation.

I think that vaccines play an important role.

I unfortunately have an autoimmune /inflammatory condition & the white blood cells that usually indicate worm/allergy are very high in my body.

I have a diagnosis of lupus but it isn't a full diagnosis. My body is producing lupus antibodies but it isn't showing the pattern of lupus.

I was placed on Chloroquine last year to calm my immune system down.

With regards to the vaccine:

Two Doctors have reluctantly told me to not be vaccinated.

Many of the issues surrounding the vaccine is due to the body going into a hyper inflammation mode, clotting or the immune system turning against the individual.

I don't know how I feel about vaccination anymore.

So I hope that Ivermectin works. I also understand that it has shown to reduce mortality by 60‰..It isn't perfect but is probably the only option I have.

I feel more comfortable being offered an Antiviral when that finally comes out.

So I am hoping there are other methods of dealing with covid.

Hearing about young people & healthy individuals dying from Delta is frightening me.

I really want to see my family but I am too afraid to expose myself to anything.

People documenting side effects of the vaccine are being censored on Tiktok, facebook etc.

These are legitimate cases and not "fake news".

Social media influences are also being paid to promote vaccination.

www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/08/04/thousand-dollar-cash-payments-and-tiktok-influencer-army-are-part-of-the-campaign-to-get-people-vaccinated/amp/

I understand why this is done but I feel overwhelmed, over stimulated & pushed to make a difficult decision for myself.

Here is a link of a lady documenting her side effects after receiving the Pfizer vaccine:

Stacee Marie on TikTok

this absolutely wrecked me to see

vm.tiktok.com

You can download the app or watch the videos from your pc. She has documented her journey every step of the way.

Dr's don't even believe that it is linked to the vaccine, she now has neurological issues & is placed on heart medication.

She struggled to convince them it wasn't "anxiety". She was hospitalised & is now being treated regularly. They are still figuring out what happened to her.

Vaccination is a personal decision but there needs to be more transparency & we also need the terms of these contracts to be exposed.

Mybb has been helpful to me during my anxiety but I need a break.

This is my last post in a while.

To anybody making a snarky comments after this, as this place has become predictable.

I wish you well & your loved ones well. I respect your decision, so don't judge me for mine.



@Geoff.D please make an effort to watch that lady's tiktok videos. It is worth the effort & you will understand why after watching it.

Btw she is getting a lot of negative comments & being called an "anti vaxxer" etc.

Take care

 

[semaphore]

-snip-

Your concerns are valid, my sister had lupus, eventually succumbing to the effects of it. I would suggest you speak to your rheumatologist (if these are the Dr's you haven't yet spoken to) and get their guidance on the matter, I know from my sister she was essentially living on cortisone to keep her immune system in check.

Not getting the vaccine for your underlying condition is perfectly acceptable and the reason why many who can get it should.

 

[Geoff.D]

I am choosing to post my thoughts here because I feel like I will be mocked/judged elsewhere.

I am getting really nervous /anxious.

Reading the feedback on some of the other threads isn't great for my mental health.

I have read in other threads about loved ones passing away, even though they took Ivermectin.

Granted in one of those posts: The patient was vaccinated, contracted covid & was on Ivermectin. She passed away after vaccination.

The cause of death sounds like side effects of the vaccine & she happened to test positive for covid at the time.

Anyway, I am in a tricky situation.

I think that vaccines play an important role.

I unfortunately have an autoimmune /inflammatory condition & the white blood cells that usually indicate worm/allergy are very high in my body.

I have a diagnosis of lupus but it isn't a full diagnosis. My body is producing lupus antibodies but it isn't showing the pattern of lupus.

I was placed on Chloroquine last year to calm my immune system down.

With regards to the vaccine:

Two Doctors have reluctantly told me to not be vaccinated.

Many of the issues surrounding the vaccine is due to the body going into a hyper inflammation mode, clotting or the immune system turning against the individual.

I don't know how I feel about vaccination anymore.

So I hope that Ivermectin works. I also understand that it has shown to reduce mortality by 60‰..It isn't perfect but is probably the only option I have.

I feel more comfortable being offered an Antiviral when that finally comes out.

So I am hoping there are other methods of dealing with covid.

Hearing about young people & healthy individuals dying from Delta is frightening me.

I really want to see my family but I am too afraid to expose myself to anything.

People documenting side effects of the vaccine are being censored on Tiktok, facebook etc.

These are legitimate cases and not "fake news".

Social media influences are also being paid to promote vaccination.

www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/08/04/thousand-dollar-cash-payments-and-tiktok-influencer-army-are-part-of-the-campaign-to-get-people-vaccinated/amp/

I understand why this is done but I feel overwhelmed, over stimulated & pushed to make a difficult decision for myself.

Here is a link of a lady documenting her side effects after receiving the Pfizer vaccine:

Stacee Marie on TikTok

this absolutely wrecked me to see

vm.tiktok.com

You can download the app or watch the videos from your pc. She has documented her journey every step of the way.

Dr's don't even believe that it is linked to the vaccine, she now has neurological issues & is placed on heart medication.

She struggled to convince them it wasn't "anxiety". She was hospitalised & is now being treated regularly. They are still figuring out what happened to her.

Vaccination is a personal decision but there needs to be more transparency & we also need the terms of these contracts to be exposed.

Mybb has been helpful to me during my anxiety but I need a break.

This is my last post in a while.

To anybody making a snarky comments after this, as this place has become predictable.

I wish you well & your loved ones well. I respect your decision, so don't judge me for mine.



@Geoff.D please make an effort to watch that lady's tiktok videos. It is worth the effort & you will understand why after watching it.

Btw she is getting a lot of negative comments & being called an "anti vaxxer" etc.

Take care

I am aware of that case. Wishing you well. I understand the stress of having to put up with being accused of being an anti-vaxxer and at the same time knowing full well that the odds of me having an adverse reaction are 80% or even worse.

And it is far worse knowing that if I get Covid that there is nothing really on offer to help.

Take care and be careful as careful as you are able to be be.

 

[buka001]

I am choosing to post my thoughts here because I feel like I will be mocked/judged elsewhere.

I am getting really nervous /anxious.

Reading the feedback on some of the other threads isn't great for my mental health.

I have read in other threads about loved ones passing away, even though they took Ivermectin.

Granted in one of those posts: The patient was vaccinated, contracted covid & was on Ivermectin. She passed away after vaccination.

The cause of death sounds like side effects of the vaccine & she happened to test positive for covid at the time.

Anyway, I am in a tricky situation.

I think that vaccines play an important role.

I unfortunately have an autoimmune /inflammatory condition & the white blood cells that usually indicate worm/allergy are very high in my body.

I have a diagnosis of lupus but it isn't a full diagnosis. My body is producing lupus antibodies but it isn't showing the pattern of lupus.

I was placed on Chloroquine last year to calm my immune system down.

With regards to the vaccine:

Two Doctors have reluctantly told me to not be vaccinated.

Many of the issues surrounding the vaccine is due to the body going into a hyper inflammation mode, clotting or the immune system turning against the individual.

I don't know how I feel about vaccination anymore.

So I hope that Ivermectin works. I also understand that it has shown to reduce mortality by 60‰..It isn't perfect but is probably the only option I have.

I feel more comfortable being offered an Antiviral when that finally comes out.

So I am hoping there are other methods of dealing with covid.

Hearing about young people & healthy individuals dying from Delta is frightening me.

I really want to see my family but I am too afraid to expose myself to anything.

People documenting side effects of the vaccine are being censored on Tiktok, facebook etc.

These are legitimate cases and not "fake news".

Social media influences are also being paid to promote vaccination.

www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/08/04/thousand-dollar-cash-payments-and-tiktok-influencer-army-are-part-of-the-campaign-to-get-people-vaccinated/amp/

I understand why this is done but I feel overwhelmed, over stimulated & pushed to make a difficult decision for myself.

Here is a link of a lady documenting her side effects after receiving the Pfizer vaccine:

Stacee Marie on TikTok

this absolutely wrecked me to see

vm.tiktok.com

You can download the app or watch the videos from your pc. She has documented her journey every step of the way.

Dr's don't even believe that it is linked to the vaccine, she now has neurological issues & is placed on heart medication.

She struggled to convince them it wasn't "anxiety". She was hospitalised & is now being treated regularly. They are still figuring out what happened to her.

Vaccination is a personal decision but there needs to be more transparency & we also need the terms of these contracts to be exposed.

Mybb has been helpful to me during my anxiety but I need a break.

This is my last post in a while.

To anybody making a snarky comments after this, as this place has become predictable.

I wish you well & your loved ones well. I respect your decision, so don't judge me for mine.



@Geoff.D please make an effort to watch that lady's tiktok videos. It is worth the effort & you will understand why after watching it.

Btw she is getting a lot of negative comments & being called an "anti vaxxer" etc.

Take care

Good luck.

The best option is to keep speaking to doctors for their advice.

 

[thehuman]

I am choosing to post my thoughts here because I feel like I will be mocked/judged elsewhere.

I am getting really nervous /anxious.

Reading the feedback on some of the other threads isn't great for my mental health.

I have read in other threads about loved ones passing away, even though they took Ivermectin.

Granted in one of those posts: The patient was vaccinated, contracted covid & was on Ivermectin. She passed away after vaccination.

The cause of death sounds like side effects of the vaccine & she happened to test positive for covid at the time.

Anyway, I am in a tricky situation.

I think that vaccines play an important role.

I unfortunately have an autoimmune /inflammatory condition & the white blood cells that usually indicate worm/allergy are very high in my body.

I have a diagnosis of lupus but it isn't a full diagnosis. My body is producing lupus antibodies but it isn't showing the pattern of lupus.

I was placed on Chloroquine last year to calm my immune system down.

With regards to the vaccine:

Two Doctors have reluctantly told me to not be vaccinated.

Many of the issues surrounding the vaccine is due to the body going into a hyper inflammation mode, clotting or the immune system turning against the individual.

I don't know how I feel about vaccination anymore.

So I hope that Ivermectin works. I also understand that it has shown to reduce mortality by 60‰..It isn't perfect but is probably the only option I have.

I feel more comfortable being offered an Antiviral when that finally comes out.

So I am hoping there are other methods of dealing with covid.

Hearing about young people & healthy individuals dying from Delta is frightening me.

I really want to see my family but I am too afraid to expose myself to anything.

People documenting side effects of the vaccine are being censored on Tiktok, facebook etc.

These are legitimate cases and not "fake news".

Social media influences are also being paid to promote vaccination.

www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/08/04/thousand-dollar-cash-payments-and-tiktok-influencer-army-are-part-of-the-campaign-to-get-people-vaccinated/amp/

I understand why this is done but I feel overwhelmed, over stimulated & pushed to make a difficult decision for myself.

Here is a link of a lady documenting her side effects after receiving the Pfizer vaccine:

Stacee Marie on TikTok

this absolutely wrecked me to see

vm.tiktok.com

You can download the app or watch the videos from your pc. She has documented her journey every step of the way.

Dr's don't even believe that it is linked to the vaccine, she now has neurological issues & is placed on heart medication.

She struggled to convince them it wasn't "anxiety". She was hospitalised & is now being treated regularly. They are still figuring out what happened to her.

Vaccination is a personal decision but there needs to be more transparency & we also need the terms of these contracts to be exposed.

Mybb has been helpful to me during my anxiety but I need a break.

This is my last post in a while.

To anybody making a snarky comments after this, as this place has become predictable.

I wish you well & your loved ones well. I respect your decision, so don't judge me for mine.



@Geoff.D please make an effort to watch that lady's tiktok videos. It is worth the effort & you will understand why after watching it.

Btw she is getting a lot of negative comments & being called an "anti vaxxer" etc.

Take care

More the reason for me and my family to get the vaccine, to try slow down this virus to protect you and any one who medically can't take vaccine.