Ivermectin: balance of evidence shows no benefit against Covid-19

[semaphore]

And you follow big pharma like a sheep despite their terrible track record, says your level of discernment is near zero.

Says the one frothing at the mouth over Ivermectin, hilarious.

 

[SoldierMan]

Says the one frothing at the mouth over Ivermectin, hilarious.

Frothing, I think you should look in the mirror there bud, your vaccine fetish is quite dramatic. I just think IVM is an underutilised tool that could help millions of people. You think it's the devils own drug

 

[semaphore]

Frothing, I think you should look in the mirror there bud, your vaccine fetish is quite dramatic. I just think IVM is an underutilised tool that could help millions of people. You think it's the devils own drug

But big pharma man, they have such a bad track record. You’re a breathing contradiction.

 

[SoldierMan]

But big pharma man, they have such a bad track record. You’re a breathing contradiction.

When IVM was under patent they were all for it, now that it is not they are against it for Covid as they have another more EXPENSIVE drug in development.

It is pretty simple stuff which you don't seem capable of comprehending..........

 

[Spizz]

When IVM was under patent they were all for it, now that it is not they are against it for Covid as they have another more EXPENSIVE drug in development.

It is pretty simple stuff which you don't seem capable of comprehending..........

So if IVM is as effective as you say and it's not under patent anymore, then presumably all pharmaceutical companies are free to make and sell? Seems like a money making scheme to me with no R&D costs. So why would they not pump out a generic version by the billion if it's all about money?

 

[SoldierMan]

So if IVM is as effective as you say and it's not under patent anymore, then presumably all pharmaceutical companies are free to make and sell? Seems like a money making scheme to me with no R&D costs. So why would they not pump out a generic version by the billion if it's all about money?

Because a dose costs $1-3, not much profit to be made. Unlike Remdesivir which costs $3000 a dose. Even with R&D costs of a new drug, the profit to be made with a new yet more expensive drug is far far more.

Also if other companies saw an off patent drug making money other companies will do the same.

 

[DA-LION-619]

Because a dose costs $1-3, not much profit to be made. Unlike Remdesivir which costs $3000 a dose. Even with R&D costs of a new drug, the profit to be made with a new yet more expensive drug is far far more.

Also if other companies saw an off patent drug making money other companies will do the same.

Where was IVM for SARS and then MERS?

 

[Spizz]

Because a dose costs $1-3, not much profit to be made. Unlike Remdesivir which costs $3000 a dose. Even with R&D costs of a new drug, the profit to be made with a new yet more expensive drug is far far more.

Also if other companies saw an off patent drug making money other companies will do the same.

Eh? Not much profit? We’re talking nearly 8 billion people on the planet and they’ll all need a considerable number each of it as good as you say it is. Even the poorest of the poor will need them at an affordable price. The volume then required will be massive and profits astronomical based on that volume.

Alternatively, how many people do you think will be forking out $3k for a tab in Liberia or Bangladesh? Or South Africa for that matter?

Dude if IVM was worth making and flogging, you can bet your bottom dollar these pharmaceutical companies would be producing them by the tonne and promoting them as a miracle cure for some easy money. Lots and lots of it.

 

[R13...]

Because a dose costs $1-3, not much profit to be made. Unlike Remdesivir which costs $3000 a dose. Even with R&D costs of a new drug, the profit to be made with a new yet more expensive drug is far far more.

Also if other companies saw an off patent drug making money other companies will do the same.

Well then why aren't governments like India making it to ease disease burden when they got snowed under by the Delta? And people are still taking it yet still die with no conclusive evidence that it works better than drinking water.

 

[SoldierMan]

@Geoff.D
Took some notes but they are a mess, so here is some info he mentioned on IVM.

Would be worth your while to go to 36:40 in the video and just watch the bit on IVM, he goes into why he chose it with details that I couldn't pick up.

He has no access to IVM, if he did it would be his drug of choice.
It's a section 21 drug, forced doctors to look elsewhere. In the first wave he had access to 20 tablets and used them as a single dose and saw improvement within single day. Third wave used in post 8th day but is aware of success in early stages and prophylaxis and all phases.

Dr Syed the person interviewing Dr Chetty said he uses IVM profusely for his patients and has had no deaths, hospitalisations and none of his patients developed long Covid.

Dr Chetty mentions another doctor he is in contact with and he uses a higher dose and the patients don't progress further in their illness.

IVM aside now, Dr Chetty (47:30) said he was approached by another doctor in SA that said he chased oxygen and lost a lot of patients in the first wave, in second wave he moved onto the WHO protocols (Remdesivir, etc.) but still lost a lot of patients, then he decided to try Dr Chetty's protocol and has been through 150 patients and hasn't had a hospitalisation or death yet and hasn't needed the supply of oxygen that he built up either.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

And you follow big pharma like a sheep despite their terrible track record, says your level of discernment is near zero.

Ivermectin is big pharma. Same people that make the vaccine...

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Because a dose costs $1-3, not much profit to be made. Unlike Remdesivir which costs $3000 a dose. Even with R&D costs of a new drug, the profit to be made with a new yet more expensive drug is far far more.

Also if other companies saw an off patent drug making money other companies will do the same.

So they can then cut back on production and Ivermectin becomes scarce due to supply and demand. Easy to do. Why don't they and save on the R&D costs of a vaccine? It will take a long time for the others to build an Ivermectin plant and in the meantime they can earn plenty money. Then ramp up production to flood the market as soon as the non patent alternatives come on line and kill the company by making them bankrupt.

Your argument is fallacious.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

@Geoff.D
Took some notes but they are a mess, so here is some info he mentioned on IVM.

Would be worth your while to go to 36:40 in the video and just watch the bit on IVM, he goes into why he chose it with details that I couldn't pick up.

He has no access to IVM, if he did it would be his drug of choice.
It's a section 21 drug, forced doctors to look elsewhere. In the first wave he had access to 20 tablets and used them as a single dose and saw improvement within single day. Third wave used in post 8th day but is aware of success in early stages and prophylaxis and all phases.

Dr Syed the person interviewing Dr Chetty said he uses IVM profusely for his patients and has had no deaths, hospitalisations and none of his patients developed long Covid.

Dr Chetty mentions another doctor he is in contact with and he uses a higher dose and the patients don't progress further in their illness.

IVM aside now, Dr Chetty (47:30) said he was approached by another doctor in SA that said he chased oxygen and lost a lot of patients in the first wave, in second wave he moved onto the WHO protocols (Remdesivir, etc.) but still lost a lot of patients, then he decided to try Dr Chetty's protocol and has been through 150 patients and hasn't had a hospitalisation or death yet and hasn't needed the supply of oxygen that he built up either.

Are you taking Ivermectin? In what dosage if you are?

 

[Cosmik Debris]

@Geoff.D
Took some notes but they are a mess, so here is some info he mentioned on IVM.

Would be worth your while to go to 36:40 in the video and just watch the bit on IVM, he goes into why he chose it with details that I couldn't pick up.

He has no access to IVM, if he did it would be his drug of choice.
It's a section 21 drug, forced doctors to look elsewhere. In the first wave he had access to 20 tablets and used them as a single dose and saw improvement within single day. Third wave used in post 8th day but is aware of success in early stages and prophylaxis and all phases.

Dr Syed the person interviewing Dr Chetty said he uses IVM profusely for his patients and has had no deaths, hospitalisations and none of his patients developed long Covid.

Dr Chetty mentions another doctor he is in contact with and he uses a higher dose and the patients don't progress further in their illness.

IVM aside now, Dr Chetty (47:30) said he was approached by another doctor in SA that said he chased oxygen and lost a lot of patients in the first wave, in second wave he moved onto the WHO protocols (Remdesivir, etc.) but still lost a lot of patients, then he decided to try Dr Chetty's protocol and has been through 150 patients and hasn't had a hospitalisation or death yet and hasn't needed the supply of oxygen that he built up either.

Yet only you and Yootchoob know about him? Why doesn't the WHO know about him?

 

[Howdy]

Your argument is fallacious.

So they can then cut back on production and Ivermectin becomes scarce due to supply and demand. Easy to do. Why don't they and save on the R&D costs of a vaccine? It will take a long time for the others to build an Ivermectin plant and in the meantime they can earn plenty money. Then ramp up production to flood the market as soon as the non patent alternatives come on line and kill the company by making them bankrupt.

Considering there is more than one plant, patent holder, manufacturer and generics, perhaps you need to rethink fallacious and your argument.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Considering there is more than one plant, patent holder, manufacturer and generics, perhaps you need to rethink fallacious and your argument.

Perhaps you need to see which plant has the most capacity? Would that be the Merck plant which was the original? What would happen if they stopped production?

 

[Cosmik Debris]

And you follow big pharma like a sheep despite their terrible track record, says your level of discernment is near zero.

So, tell me who has the best track record concerning medical treatment seeing as big pharma has a terrible record? Waiting...

 

[Swa]

Dunning Kruger is actually about those who think they understand a subject due to lack of qualifications...

Quo Vadis?

It's actually about those people with such a general lack of knowledge that they can't recognise their lack of knowledge.

What in the heck are you talking about I was taking notes for people who don't have the time to watch the whole video and I know Geoff doesn't like to watch videos.

It in no way makes me an expert on anything you imbecile, it just means I wrote down what he said and people can make up their own minds. But it does show what an jerk you are for thinking that that is what I thought. I think though what it shows is that you were projecting quite a bit as you consider yourself quite the expert don't you......

Now go troll somewhere else with your anti anything vax crap.

The guy is just off on one of his petty forum rants. They are really coming out of every corner like rapid dogs now that the evidence for IVM is increasing.

When IVM was under patent they were all for it, now that it is not they are against it for Covid as they have another more EXPENSIVE drug in development.

It is pretty simple stuff which you don't seem capable of comprehending..........

Actually they gave it away under patent as a gift because it was a completely unprofitable drug.

Where was IVM for SARS and then MERS?

It's my understanding IVM was actually being studied around that time for various viruses but there was no pressure to find an immediate cure.

Perhaps you need to see which plant has the most capacity? Would that be the Merck plant which was the original? What would happen if they stopped production?

Merck can only manufacture 5% of the supply. If others start making it that figure drops. Even at $3 a dose it only makes a few cents profit. That's partly the reason for the WHO's stance as if the price suddenly increases a lot of the underdeveloped world will not have access to it but that's the wrong approach imo.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

It's actually about those people with such a general lack of knowledge that they can't recognise their lack of knowledge.

Wrong. Dunning Kruger is specifically about people with general knowledge believing they have specialist knowledge and their inability to recognise the fact. Recognise some people here?

 

[Cosmik Debris]

The guy is just off on one of his petty forum rants. They are really coming out of every corner like rapid dogs now that the evidence for IVM is increasing.

On Yootchoob maybe. In the real world of medicine there is no evidence for it's efficacy.

Actually they gave it away under patent as a gift because it was a completely unprofitable drug.

It's unprofitable? Is that why big pharma hasn't stopped making it? Because it's unprofitable and they're only in it for the money? And farmers buy this unprofitable drug all the time?

It's my understanding IVM was actually being studied around that time for various viruses but there was no pressure to find an immediate cure.

Your understanding? Can you back that up with some substantiation at all?

Merck can only manufacture 5% of the supply. If others start making it that figure drops. Even at $3 a dose it only makes a few cents profit. That's partly the reason for the WHO's stance as if the price suddenly increases a lot of the underdeveloped world will not have access to it but that's the wrong approach imo.

US$3 per dose? That's about R15. My farmers Co-op sells it for under R340 for 500 ml. That would make the dose about 22 ml or more than 4 teaspoons. What, according to you, is the correct and recommended dose and how often should it be given?

Waiting for an answer...